Book Club: ‘The Eight Keys to Recovery from an Eating Disorder’

Disclaimer: The following transcript has been autogenerated and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies resulting from the automated transcription process.

Host:
Hi there. Welcome to Mental Health Professionals Network podcast series. MHPN’s aim is to promote and celebrate interdisciplinary collaborative mental health care.

Warren Ward:
Welcome to this episode of MHPN Presents Book Club. My name is Warren Ward. I’m a psychiatrist based in Brisbane, Australia. I’m the host of today’s episode, and as such, I get to choose the book! And the book I’ve chosen and I’m very excited about it is The Eight Keys to Recovery from An Eating Disorder by Carolyn Costin and Gwen Schubert Grabb. The reason I’ve chosen this book is I’ve been working in the area of eating disorders for about 20 years, and every patient I’ve suggested they read this book and work through this every day while they’re doing their other treatment with me, and my team has found it helpful. And so, I’ve dipped in and out of it. But for this book, I wanted to read it from front to end and I couldn’t think of a better person that I would want to invite to join me today to discuss the book. And that’s Lexi Crouch. Hi Lexi.

Lexi Crouch:
Hi Warren. Thank you So, much for inviting me. It’s a pleasure to be here today.

Warren Ward:
Lexi, you were the first person I thought of immediately when I was asked to invite somebody to speak because I remember a few years ago now watching you speak to a group of doctors. There were about 50 doctors in the room, and you were sharing your lived experience of recovery from an eating disorder. And I was just hanging on every word because whilst I might have learned about the medical side of eating disorders and some of the evidence-based psychological treatments and nutritional side of it, I hadn’t heard anyone so eloquent talk about how severe your eating disorder was. Like you almost died from it and now you’re fully recovered. And for me, I could see that just lighting up the eyes of the doctors in the room and other health professionals and helping them to understand what it’s like from the inside. And that’s what this book does. It’s written by two people who are clinicians, but they both have recovered from an eating disorder. So, there’s so much going on in my head and maybe yours too, Lexi. But I guess the first question is, did you like the book?

Lexi Crouch:
I did and I enjoyed that it was from the view of lived experience, but also, Carolyn who’s gone on to be a therapist as well. And I guess I can relate in that sense where it does give a whole different insight into eating disorders and really into the nitty gritty of what you actually have to do or what is actually going on that when I was reading this book, and to be honest, I didn’t read this book when I was going through recovery. It wasn’t around. It’s when I have been recovered that I did read it to look at that and go, that’s exactly step-by-step of a process that is actually going on. But it’s actually been converted into a book. So, very profound for me, Warren.

Warren Ward:
Just today I was welcoming a new registrar to my team and he’d read the college guidelines which talk about what medical parameters you should admit somebody, he’d read about how much nutrition you should give people, what type of formal therapy, CBTE. But I said to him, I think you should read this book because this helps you to understand what it’s like for the person trying to recover and what’s involved. And it’ll help you with your conversations with them. So, for you, looking back to when you were in this early stages of recovery, what do you think the messages from this book would’ve been most helpful to you back then?

Lexi Crouch:
Oh, I really, if I had found this, life presents things when it’s meant to. So, I feel like reading this when I had been recovered gave me that insight to jump back to see how I would’ve seen this if I was going through the journey at the time, if I’d seen this, I guess I would’ve felt hopeful in the sense that this is the first book that I’ve seen where it does come from somebody who has actually been through something. And I know through my own journey, I searched far and wide. We saw professionals, everyone had their place, we all had their modalities, but it was very isolating in the sense of I felt like I couldn’t relate. So, you feel strange enough when you have an eating disorder and if I’d found this book, it was like something brings to your soul that you’re like somebody else has actually been through that.
And it inspires hope. And it’s not just one person, it’s not just Carolyn. We talk about Gwen’s experience as well. And I guess it’s very inspiring in the sense that Carolyn, I see her as such a pioneer in the world of eating disorders. She’s just So, realised as a human now to be like, this is my journey, this is why I’m helping people now. And she just articulates with Gwen when she sees her as a patient as well, that I feel like readers just see that and it gives hope. And that’s actually in there. That’s key one. We talk about hope and how that is actually needed to just get anywhere. So, if I’d seen this through recovery, I think whether or not I was ready to see it, there’s always tools that come into your life that I feel are going to lead the way. And this book definitely would’ve been one. Yeah, I know that with recovery where I would’ve tried a few things, so, perhaps if I was ready or not, many of the answers are sitting there and it would’ve come about.

Warren Ward:
And the first chapter of course talks about ambivalence and patience and persistence. And I love how it starts with that for the reader, if someone with an eating disorder is reading this, they’ll see it’s actually okay and normal to be in two minds to not be sure if you know whether you want to let go of the eating disorder behaviours, because they serve a purpose. And there’s something in this first chapter two that I find really useful clinically and that is saying to the person, look, the way Carolyn Coston talks about it in her book is we all have a healthy self and an eating disorder self. And they’re both parts of you and they both serve a purpose. And the aim of this book is to help you get your healthy self stronger and the eating disorder self still there, but you’re not acting on it so much. Have you personally found that separation helpful?

Lexi Crouch:
Oh, absolutely. And it’s really interesting because when you do revisit, and I like to revisit because you realise how far you’ve actually come. I was reading that chapter and I was looking at Gwen’s experience and she wrote something about what if I don’t have a healthy self? And I just remember that I absolutely remember people talking about that’s the eating disorder voice. And I used to feel very isolated because I was like, what eating disorder voice, this is me, this is 100% me. And I think it very much how she lists the stages of where you’re going through and that it does come out in time. And for me that was something that actually happened.For years I was going, ooh, because I dunno if anyone else can relate, but when you are going through an eating disorder, people can tell you that this is something that people go through, but for some reason you, you just think it’s that nobody understands you.
And you might even read that and go, Ooh, I actually can’t relate that there’s two different things going on because you might be sowing your eating disorder. And it was really great how Gwen had kind of said that. But if I look at my own journey and going through recovery, I notice that in time recovery is a journey. It’s a process that you do start to hear different things. It’s not So, much a voice, you just kind of have a bit of an observation or a bit of a feeling that you go, ooh, that’s not kind of serving me. So, that’s when that healthy self starts coming gradually. So, I really liked how they put that in there to I guess make it relatable for readers because it is the eight keys to recovering. So, if I’d read that in the peak of an eating disorder and not been ready to recover, might’ve not have related, but that’s where they make it very, I guess relatable to be like, yes, we’ve been there too. So, I really admire that in the book.

Warren Ward:
And we should mention probably there’s lots of exercises, things for the person to do. And I always say to my patients, it’s good to read it, it’s even better if you can do the exercises. And one for exercise I think is to work out which stage of recovery you’re at. There’s one option is I don’t have a problem, everybody leave me alone, then I want to get better, but I dunno how. So, I think all these quotes make sense to me. As they say, if you’re reading this book, there is some healthy self what picked up the book.

Lexi Crouch:
A hundred percent. Yes. And I definitely relate with that, which is I guess the whole book as well, exactly what we are talking about. When you’re recovering, you think that you might be the only person stuck in this place. But I was reading this and then jumping back when I did have the eating disorder, that is exactly what I was thinking. And to see that in book form when Carolyn and Gwen have written that, it just made it relatable. And I think if anything, when you’re going through something that’s what you want. So, you notice the different stages and you look back and you realise that this is something that many people have gone through before. Many people have had an eating disorder and it makes just recovery so inspiring that it is an option. It can happen.

Warren Ward:
When I see a new patient, and sometimes it’s the first time they’ve ever talked to anyone about their eating disorder and there’s often lots of tears, I sort of explain four things to them. The first thing is I explain that it’s really dangerous and deadly to be not eating enough. And I give them feedback about their medical stuff and explain that we want you to stay alive even though you feel fine, you are a real risk. The second thing is if your brain is starved, it’s going to be different to before you started eating less. And the way that the brain reacts when it’s starved is what call the four Rs developing rituals, rules, rigidity and routines. And the third thing I’ve explained is once we’ve renourished your brain, and that’s going to take a few weeks, it’s really important to have a good therapist to help you with some evidence-based therapy to find other ways to deal with thoughts and feelings other than not eating or purging or exercising.
But the fourth thing I say is, you’re only going to see me once a week and you’re a psychologist once a week and this eating disorder is going to be giving you a hard time all day. So, you’re going to need something to help you counteract that. And I would suggest this book, and I recommend the book and suggest, can you put aside half an hour each day to read it? And I had a patient the other day who was actually a medical practitioner. They just came back with post-it notes everywhere and they were, they’re on the way to recovery. It was really wonderful to see. Does any of that, what I’ve said resonate with you? I mean, the book isn’t the treatment. It’s a compliment to treatment, isn’t it?

Lexi Crouch:
Yeah, absolutely, Warren, and to be fair, I did go through my eating disorder in such a taboo time. I believe resources and help and just the conversations we have now more freely available, and we have a lot more education and information. I didn’t have this book at the time, but if I look back, it really relates to how I did recover properly in the sense of it is a lot of team meetings with yourself of the exercise, with the exercise that you’ve got there to just sit down and try and I guess decipher what is the eating disorder, what is you? And I guess that’s what recovery is. It’s this really profound journey that it is about self-realization and discovery as humans, we’re all going through something and eating disorder just might be for somebody else, but recovery is this whole field of discovery. So, with these exercises and breaking out of exactly what you’ve said, you watch yourself go from someone that has rigidity, rituals and everything that happens slowly, but these exercises are great ways to just look at yourself. Yeah, yeah. There’s

Warren Ward:
Lots of little steppingstones out there from dipping your toe in the water, not sure if I even want to let go of meetings, order to right at the end finding a meaningful life. I mean, I found that a lot of the book very helpful. But when I’m trying to sell this book to my sceptical patients, I always get the nodding when I say these things because they’re really showing Carolyn’s wisdom. I think I say, look, of the eight keys, one of them is it’s not about the food. And they always nod like you just did then. And I say, because really, you’re trying to control something or it’s serving a purpose. And then I say, and another key is it is about the food and their shoulders drop there. I say, because without nourishment of your brain, you can’t get better. And I say, there’s two other paradoxical keys in there, and one is you can’t do this alone. And they always nod to that because come to us for help, which is a hard thing to do. And then the other key is only you can do it. And they nod that too, which is because no one can get you better. You have to do the work. So, what about those dialectics if you like? Do they ring a bell with you?

Lexi Crouch:
Yeah, absolutely. And we’re here in person. So, you’ve seen me nodding along and actually laughing out loud when you’ve read these. And it’s funny because I’m well and truly on the other side now, I’ve been over a decade recovered. And I’m just thinking back into that space of if you were handing a patient a book, it’s eating disorders, you’re completely stuck in analysis at the time, and you’re also looking for answers. You’re looking for hope. So, you’re kind of looking at this book because you don’t know what is there. You don’t know what recovery is. Yet you’re taking a chance of just reading this, hoping that this person really knows what they’re talking about. And thank goodness that Carolyn and Gwen, they really model that. If you see any of their other work in person, they’re vibrant, they’re passionate, and they’re very grounded and they’re in themselves.
So, this is why you might take a chance on this book. You can see that in the flesh, but it’s listening to those steps. And I laughed, particularly when I read this of it was key number three. It’s not about the food. And then jumping to key number five, it is about the food and thinking how much that would’ve been such a warp to realise going, how am I meant to follow that step? How am I meant to do that? But I think it’s quite magic. They’ve embedded in this book that the freedom does come because you will read this years later and completely understand what they’re talking about at the time. That might be very confusing to realise it’s not about the food, but it’s all about the food. But I’d find that how they’ve spoken about that, it does give hope. They’re talking about your issues do not stem from the food, but when you go on where it is about the food, the way that you eat, it’s like when you become conscious, and you do start to make some intuitive choices there. So, it is following along, and I think it is trying different things and that’s what recovery is. So, it’s picking up that book for a patient to know the first step is trying to get uncomfortable and trying something new. So, yeah, definitely that.

Warren Ward:
It’s like having a coach, isn’t it, in a book.

Lexi Crouch:
Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Warren Ward:
Lexi, I know as well as you own recovery, you’ve helped other people as well. Can you tell us a bit about that work you do and all the various roles you have in paying it forward, if we could call it that?

Lexi Crouch:
Yeah, absolutely Warren. And that does go to key number seven is reach out to people rather than your eating disorder. This is something that I know in myself and others that I’ve spoken to, coached or even friends who’ve been through this as well. The last thing you want to do is burden somebody. So, with eating disorders, they tend to, which you would see also in your work, Warren, you don’t want to worry anyone. You think that you’re taking up too much space as it is. But a huge part is learning that it is about connection, and that’s exactly what the eating disorder is. You are searching for a connection. So, that starts with trying to put trust in people, which can be very hard. So, in my work and actually life, it’s kind of gone through this journey that I am very much the same person in every avenue.
So, I’m this as a mom, I’m this as a professional, so, that real approach to life now. And I try to model that to people that I am coaching, I think, which Carolyn does too, that you can go through something, you can go on the other side, and you can achieve your dreams and goals. So, if anything, I do not put myself or my story absolutely on a pedestal, if anything, or when I recovered, I didn’t want anything to do with eating disorders, actually. Understandable. I wanted to go away and just not talk about food or anything. But I feel like my path just kind of pulled me back. And I’m a firm believer where I feel like even this book comes from is once you’ve discovered something and you can help people, it is time to give back. So, that’s where I went into my line of work, and it is just sharing from a real place.
So, I found my biggest comfort was meeting my mentor who didn’t have an eating disorder, but essentially, he’d gone through drug addiction and alcohol addiction, which I wasn’t drawn to that. The eating disorder provided enough sparks for me as that was but was essentially, we were looking for that human connection. And I remember one day just talking to him thinking, oh, he’s going to think that I’m crazy or something. And I must’ve spoken about being at one of my lowest points, and he turned around and just so reassuringly said to me, oh yeah, I remember when I was there in life. And it was one of my biggest aha moments of just going, wow, because I hold my mentor so highly. He’s gone on to write books, he’s gone on to help people, and one of Australia’s top therapists, and I just sat. And to this day I still get goosebumps. I just can’t believe it that that was something that helped me. And I don’t think he even knows to the level of just that one moment, but that went on to inspire me to go, if I could sit there and tell someone to be like I’ve been there to and genuinely mean that if that helps someone guide them on their journey, then that’s a life worth living. So, kind of fell into that role.

Warren Ward:
And that gets me thinking about the fact that I think very early in the book, at the end of the first chapter, they encourage the reader to go and find someone who’s recovered from an eating disorder, because a lot of people don’t believe recovery is possible. And I think GPs, psychologists, dietitians can do this too, encourage their patients to get a peer mentor or somebody who’s recovered because for a lot of people, they feel it’s not possible with my experience, what I’ve heard.

Lexi Crouch:
Yeah, and I think that’s kind of funny too, because I remember I did go through a eating disorder in a time where we wouldn’t have had mentors or people available. I remember I was the only person I knew who had an eating disorder at that time. So, it was very, yeah, the word was taboo. And I remember getting pulled out of school and school had not seen this happen before, so, I didn’t have anyone to connect with. But it was actually coming back years later of when I did fall into that path of wanting to help people down the path too of meeting up. And that was teak back in the day, Eating Disorders Queensland now where we had a mentor programme and I just remember seeing a flyer or, well, not a flyer, we saw it on the internet just thinking, oh, that might be a steppingstone.
And I remember turning up that day, there must’ve been seven other people and they’d all recovered from an eating disorder. And that was the first time, and this was, I’d been recovered for about six years as well at this time, of just being in a room of people that had been through issues and just seeing that it was possible and we were all very different, but we’d had similar experiences. We’d all navigated recovery in different avenues, but much along the same line, a lot of us went into creative pathways or found a deeper meaning and connection to life. I know that rings true for me, but it was being with people that had recovered and also, that was inspiring for me, although I didn’t have that with my eating disorder, that did bring home the message of people do go through this, they can recover. And I hope that’s what the power of the book does as well.

Warren Ward:
Yeah. Maybe we should just talk a bit more about Carolyn Coston. I’ve met Carolyn a few times. Carolyn’s an amazing person. She recovered from a very severe eating disorder at a time when there was not much around as you’ve described. And then she went on to become a teacher and then she went on to become a therapist, and then she started setting up residential programmes in America, I think about eight or nine, the Monte Nido Residential Programmes. And there’s a residential programme in Australia called Wandi Nerida that I do know you’ve had some involvement with, as have I. So, she’s gone on to really change the face of eating disorder treatment in the world in her roles of mentor coach. Which reminds me of a quote I often think in my head is that if people with eating disorders recover, they often go on to do amazing things. I think because talked about this in the book too, they often have the genetics of drive, discipline, passion, intelligence, high achievers. Do you identify at all with that two-sided coin as they call it there, that personality trait?

Lexi Crouch:
Oh, absolutely. And I say to people that I’m coaching or even in my, I’ve got my healthy self-esteem now to even realise that people with eating disorders are not ineffective. You have that drive intrinsically in you; you just don’t get up. I know for me it was anorexia, but you don’t just get up every day and go, oh, I might starve myself and then give up. No, you are dedicated. You’ve got commitment, drive, passion and intensity. And it’s a hard job, Warren, as you know, it’s a 24-hour job that’s pretty much being like a CEO in that regard. So, you’ve got that inside you. And it’s really interesting because people will always ask me, when you recover, are you a totally different person? And my answer is no. In the sense that you’re still a very, I guess I’ve seen a lot of people with eating disorders. They’re very kind people. They’ve got a lot of drive, and you’ve still got that nature. You’ve still got your true nature, but it is directing it into something that is going to be uplifting. And we talk about Carolyn, it’s quite interesting. I went down the yoga path as well, So, she talks very much about yoga, and that was a very big tool for my recovery. So, that’s 11 years and almost a daily practise for me. That gave me that deeper connection as well that Carolyn can relate to. But I put my drive there and I learned a lot of my boundaries and about my body as well. It really limited that exercise addiction for me because it taught me to accept myself. I remember getting on my mat and I started to create this body awareness as well. So, I’d soon be able to register what I needed to do yoga, what food I needed when I needed to rest, which that always comes in time. You don’t just get up and be like, okay, I can’t do this today. It’s like the boundaries.

Warren Ward:
Do you just want to repeat something you said there, when I needed to rest, because I’ve found my patients who haven’t recovered. That’s a pretty scary idea. When did you learn about resting?

Lexi Crouch:
Absolutely, and I am so open about this because we can give manuals to people to say, don’t exercise, eat this, follow this. But it’s a human under there at the end of the time, so, you’re going to do what you want to do. So, it’s not about beating yourself up. I know for me, I really had to push some of my boundaries to know what did not work for me. I had to take things with the eating disorder as far as they could to go, ooh, I don’t want to feel like that. So, it was when I was learning. I remember when I’d got into yoga, eating disorders can be notorious for going, okay, because I’m committed to do this, I need to do the same thing every day at the same time. So, you’re still very driven by your rituals and dedication.
I remember starting yoga like that because you’re still in that way. It’s yoga works very differently in the sense that there is a lot happening at a deeper level that we don’t really understand. So, I’ve been practising for a while, and yoga was not glamorous for me when I was in eating disorder recovery, I’d get up, I’d be crying, I’d be in a lot of pain, but it also gave me somewhere to be in the sense of I could have gone completely into the eating disorder, but I learned to rest by just showing up. And it was almost someone holding space. I used to go to a yoga studio every morning and to get through just an hour of being in class where it was gentle, you’re learning to rest and doing the things of holding that space until I could do that for myself was a really pinnacle moment of starting to create that body awareness. And then in time you start to really feel your senses because you do disconnect from your mind and your body. You’re purely driven by your mind with anorexia. A hundred percent.

Warren Ward:
Isn’t that interesting? People think it’s focused on the body, but everyone’s in their head, aren’t they?

Lexi Crouch:
Yes.

Warren Ward:
When they’re still ill. We need to start to experience the present moment in part of recovery.

Lexi Crouch:
And I’m one of those people too, for the record of anyone listening I did from exercise addiction. So, going to yoga just sounded so barbaric and ridiculous for me, but was I was at a point where I did need to try something and in turn, it really did save my life. It started to develop this whole connection and integration that, yeah, I then learned to eat properly as well.

Warren Ward:
And did you learn how to sit still?

Lexi Crouch:
Oh, I did. Wow.

Warren Ward:
A lot of us could learn that.

Lexi Crouch:
And in saying that though, it’s a practise. So, some days you can and some days you can’t and you don’t judge yourself regardless. But definitely taught me to be with myself.

Warren Ward:
One thing I’d like our listeners to know who understand is that people with anorexia and other eating disorders, and this book highlights this. They’re a bit like doctors and psychologists and dietitians, other abnormal people in our society. I said, I’d say something inappropriate in this podcast. So, I’ve said it now, only mildly inappropriate in that very driven, able to delay gratification to get to the goal. Very disciplined. So, in a way, they talk about anorexia and other eating disorders as the canary in the coal mine. We live in a culture where we’re so focused on appearance, achievement. Think of the TV shows. We watch The Biggest Loser, Survivor. That’s, we’re obsessed with that. But when somebody actually goes and performs the culture really well, we get very disturbed. But really in a way, I think what I’m trying to help people with anorexia, I’m also trying to help myself and my family and all of us because I need to be counter-cultural and how can we just sit still?
And I think they saying there, the silver medal is good enough. That’s a really hard thing for a lot of us to accept. And so, I think the self-criticalness of the person with angel is really important. And often our job as clinicians is to make the person feel safe and unjudged enough that they want to come back for a second appointment because they’re dipping their tongue in the water when they come to see you thinking, I think I want to hold on to this eating disorder, but I’ve been nagged. I’ve better come in. So, it’s a lot to scare the person off. So, it’s really just to be curious, I think, and ask the person questions rather than tell ’em a whole lot of things. Yes. It’s been your experience with various clinicians. Have there been some that made you want to go back for a second appointment?

Lexi Crouch:
That’s really funny, Warren. When I found my therapist and we tried a lot, and we had many that helped in the journey. And for this, for me, it was a 15-year journey. So, we did see different people at times. But when I found my therapist, I like to call him my person, who I still see today for regular check-ins about life, it’s an ongoing journey. Exactly what you said, Warren. I remember I was so sick and tired of seeing therapists and professionals, no disrespect, but that had been my life and I’d been doing that for 15 years. And in all honesty, I could have told you more about the eating disorder, I could tell my dietitians what I needed to eat. It was not that I didn’t have a logical sense of what needed to be done. And a lot of the time I did feel very hopeless.
I feel like you’d tell your story to somebody, and they’d try and analyse and come to this. And I felt very misunderstood. But when I found my therapist, my person, it’s exactly what you said, Warren. And that was what went through my head was going, oh, he seems all right. I might come back again. And I did that a few times. And it was really interesting because normally I was very quick to judge before I got into yoga. I judged myself. So, I would judge my professionals thinking that they couldn’t help me. And I knew everything at the time. But this guy, he just gave me enough to go, yeah, I think I’ll come back. But what I realised he was doing for a long time; we never spoke about issues of the eating disorder. It was the first person that didn’t go, oh, you are eating disorder and give me this whole identity. He just wanted to ask some questions about life. And he seemed really integrated in himself. And I was very confused actually, because normally it was, you’ve been doing this and that means you can’t do this, let’s not do this. And it was like we were talking about an eating disorder, and nobody spoke to me as a person.

Warren Ward:
That’s really important, and I’m just aware we’re sort of coming almost to the end of time. So, I think it would be good if we could end with maybe each of us sharing one thing we really wished we’d got around to in this book because there’s so much in this book, but is there one thing you can think of that we haven’t really covered if we had longer you’d like to explore?

Lexi Crouch:
Oh, this is a very deep life question, Warren, but it is the last key, which is key number eight of finding meaning and purpose, which they talk very much about soul moments and something that is entirely beyond the body. And I found this really interesting when I was reading coming back, because as I was saying, I’ve been recovered for over a decade now. That rings to me so true. Do you know what I mean? It’s life has really taken this very deep level of living where I do connect to something else. It’s kind of like you get through an eating disorder, and you experience and you see life in a whole other light that you would not have seen in the peak of the eating disorder. So, reading that chapter, I could see that now as someone who’s recovered to go, yes! And I get goosebumps when I say this of going, that is just the pinnacle of recovery for me, of just having that deep connection and this deep way of living.
I wake up every day, Warren, and I know we’re on social media a lot, but it’s like the sunrise. And that is just everything for me of just knowing when I was in a hospital bed, I couldn’t go outside. And these little things that when you do recover, you just do not take a day for granted. So, that was a really deep chapter for me. And I did think when I was reading through this that it’s hard because many people will be stuck in analysis when they’re reading this book. And it is that journey of recovery where in time you’re going to start to feel things, you’re going to start to not be as numb and you are going to embark on what everybody talks about as being recovered. But that doesn’t happen overnight. So, it is a chapter that for anybody, if they are going through something and listening, is to hold hope for that one, because that is just a chapter to show that there are things to come, there are things you haven’t felt before. There are ways of life you haven’t seen. So, really, that just brought the book home for me of going, yes, there is a deeper meaning of life beyond eating disorders.

Warren Ward:
Thank you. And I think the thing that comes to my mind, it’s very related to what you’re saying, is that we have a left hemisphere and a right hemisphere in our brain. And a left hemisphere is really good at analysing, judging, and criticising. And a lot of people with anorexia and a lot of doctors and clinicians are very stuck in that abstract, analysing, counting, measuring. Whereas the right hemisphere is when you hear a beautiful piece of music, and you start crying or you notice that sunrise. And in a way, recovery from disorder is to get away from the culturally dominant way of being, which is to be measuring everything to actually noticing what’s around you. So, I’ve learned spo much from my patients actually, about how I can be in the world better too. And I’ve learned a lot from you personally, Lexi, during our collaborations, maybe this is a good time to just mention that we’ve written a book and it’s coming out early next year.
It’s called Renourish, How to Recover from An Eating Disorder published by Pan MacMillan. It talks about renourishing the brain, renourishing the body, renourishing the Soul. And so, there’ll be information about that on the website as well. But I think it’s time for us to close, and we hope you’ve enjoyed this conversation about the book Eight Keys to Recovery From An Eating Disorder by Carolyn Costan and Gwen Schubert Grabb as much as Lexie and I have. If you want to learn more about myself or Lexie, our bios can be found on the landing page on this episode. On the landing page. You’ll also find a whole lot of stuff of interest, including a link to the eight keys to recovery from a meeting or book a link which provides more information about the book that Lexie and I have co-authored. And a link to MHPN’s feedback survey, MHPN does value your feedback. So please follow the link and let us know whether you have found this episode helpful, provide comments and or suggestions to help shape the future of MHPN podcasts to stay up to date with Future book Club episodes and other MHPN podcasts. Don’t forget to subscribe to MHPN presents. Thank you for your commitment to and engagement with interdisciplinary person-centered mental health care. So, it’s goodbye.

Lexi Crouch:
Goodbye everyone, and thank you for listening today and thank you, Warren for your continued work in the field and all the clinicians listening out there for essentially helping others have a better life as well. Thank you for having me.

Warren Ward:
Thanks, Lexi Crouch and it’s Warren Ward signing off.

Host:
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