A Conversation About… Climate Change and Mental Health – Part 4

Disclaimer: The following transcript has been autogenerated and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies resulting from the automated transcription process.

Host (00:01):

Hi there. Welcome to Mental Health Professionals Network podcast series MHPN’s aim is to promote and celebrate interdisciplinary collaborative mental health care.

Professor Ann Sanson (00:18):

Welcome to MHPN Presents A Conversation About climate change and mental health. This is a four-part podcast series, which is exploring the relationship between the climate emergency that we’re currently facing and our mental health. My name is Ann Sanson and I’m on Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung Country. And I’d like to acknowledge elders past and present and pay my respects and also remember the amazing care that Aboriginal people have given to this land over so many generations and thousands of years, and the threats that that land is now under with climate change. And also to reflect on the wisdom that Indigenous peoples have to offer us in terms of caring for and restoring that land. So I’m delighted to be hosting this fourth and final episode in the series because I think we are all facing something that’s new and very challenging that our training may not have actually prepared us for all that well. So I think thinking about our roles as mental health professionals, but also as family members and community members, how we can look after ourselves, what opportunities we have for moving forwards, I think is just really important. Across the three previous episodes, I’ve been joined by Merle Conyer and Susie Burke as I am again today. And with their wealth of experience, they’ve got a lot to offer us on the topics that we’re going to be talking about. So welcome to you both.

Merle Conyer  (01:53):

Hello Ann. So good to be with you again.

Professor Ann Sanson (01:56):

Merle, perhaps you could just tell our listeners a bit about yourself and why you are here and engaging in this conversation.

Merle Conyer  (02:02):

Sure Ann. I’m here on Garigal Land where I work as an independent practitioner at the intersection of trauma, healing and justice, primarily with service providers, teens, organisations and communities, including those who are deeply concerned about the environmental crisis and caring for our earth. A primary motivation for contributing to these conversations is that are really do believe that mental health professionals have such an important role to play at this time, both for offering attuned support for people in communities as we all find our way towards life-affirming actions for all beings on the planet, and also to stand in solidarity with young people to protect their future. I’ve really appreciated how I’ve come to know you initially through your own work and your webinars and listening to you in these previous episodes strengthened my own sense of knowledge and potential skill. And so it’s a great pleasure to be here with both of you today.

Professor Ann Sanson (03:05):

Thanks very much, Merle, that’s really lovely. And Susie, welcome back, it’s lovely to see you again.

Dr Susie Burke  (03:11):

Thank you very much Ann. It’s been great to be a part of this podcast series after our last one. Yes, I’m joining you from Dja Dja Wurrung Country in Central Victoria where I live. We’re actually in lowan time at the moment, which is an Indigenous word for mallee fowl. So we don’t have many mallee fowls around here. I think I’m not quite in the mallee fowl part of the region, but I like the idea of knowing a little bit about the Indigenous names for the seasons as we go through the year. And look, I’ve worked for many years at the Australian Psychological Society working on climate change as in disasters, and now I’m just in private practice at home. But when people used to ask me why would a psychologist be working on climate change? And I actually don’t get that question so much these days, but when I used to in the past, I’d say, well, there’s three very good reasons.

(03:54):

And the first reason is because climate change is caused by human behaviour and as experts in human behaviour, that ought to be something that we’re very concerned about. And the second reason would be that climate change has an enormous impact on our mental health and our psychological wellbeing, which is what we’ve been talking about a lot today, and therefore as mental health practitioners. So that’s also something that’s of great concern to us. And the third reason would be that all of the solutions to climate change actually require widespread changes in human behaviour. And again, as experts in human behaviour, that’s something that we ought to be extremely interested in and connected with. So I thought I’d just share that work that I do today.

Professor Ann Sanson (04:29):

Thanks, Susie. That’s a lovely summary of the importance of our roles, I think in addressing the climate crisis as mental health providers. So across this series we have been chatting about the nexus between climate change and mental health. What is the nexus? Who’s impacted? What does it mean for clinical practise? How can we as mental health providers look after our clients as well as ourselves in this global emergency? So in our first episode, we discussed the climate crisis as a global emergency with very significant mental health impacts for everybody, but for some being more particularly vulnerable than others. In this second episode, we talked about how our models of individual and group clinical practise need to pivot to respond to the climate emergency. And we got lots of great examples of how that might happen from Merle and Susie. The third episode was focused on children and youth, the ones that inherit the mess that previous generations have created and how they’re affected and how parents and mental health providers and others can best respond to their needs. And now in this final episode, we are going to chat about what all of this means for mental health providers themselves. How can we look after ourselves in this emergency and what opportunities do we have to make a difference? So Merle, maybe I could ask you to start off by exploring why we need to be looking after ourselves in this unprecedented situation that we find ourselves in and how we can do so.

Merle Conyer  (06:04):

Certainly Ann, I’m very mindful that in the previous episodes, the three of us, we’ve been talking about work with clients and with communities that we serve, but also what we’ve been talking about is about us both professionally and personally. We are facing this too. And so it is ourselves who may also be experiencing strong emotions, perhaps some of us, some of the listeners may be carrying worry, anxiety, even fear about what is already occurring and what is predicted for the future. There may be feelings of anger and frustration, the lack of meaningful, urgent action by governments and corporations that have the capacity to shift to the dial of action and either are not doing that with a sense of urgency and in some instances are interfering with the capacity of others in the community to move forward. There may be others of us carrying immense sadness or grief.

(07:07):

When we step into awareness of this time, I believe we step into a lifelong relationship with grief. There will be potentially continuous loss, loss of beloved places, depletion of the natural world. There are people today who are no longer choosing to have pets because they worry about the effect of hot weather on their pets as well as the impact of meat production in order to support their pets. So aspects of our lives, which are very dear to us, are now becoming sources of missing and of loss. It may be that at times we have difficulty with maintaining hope, and I think that is a really important grappling for all of us as mental health providers. Where do we stand in terms of hope and despair, possibly on a continuum, possibly at the same holding them both together? I do feel that that’s existential work for us, deep work for us to do for ourselves if we are truly to be able to sit and hold space for others and their complex emotions

(08:16):

in this. And indeed there may be some of us have a tendency to deny or avoid the feelings and distract ourselves. And that’s not hard to do with so much else that demands our attention and energy. And we may indeed find that we go in and out, that there are times we’re deeply immersed, we feel the grief, the loss, the anger, and that there are other times, it’s as if we are living a double line continuing to live as we always have business as usual at the same time as knowing that all we are moving into these really difficult times. So I do feel that part of this journey is for us to do our deep work to face this for ourselves, to find our own footing into a realistic hope in order for us to be able to sit and hold meaningful space for others. I’m wondering, Susie, what are your thoughts around this?

Dr Susie Burke  (09:10):

Now, when you were talking, I was thinking about some research that I often write about by a Norwegian environmental psychologist, Per Espen Stoknes, who wrote about the different types of hope. And I was just thinking how I might share that because it’s sort of really relevant. So he talks about there being these four major types of hope that we can engage in, and there are two forms of optimism and then two forms of skepticism. And so there’s an active and a passive form of optimism and an active and passive form of skepticism, and some of them are more useful than others. And I was thinking that really you were talking about a very robust form of hope when you were talking just then that you use the word realistic hope. So the passive optimism is kind of like Pollyanna Hope, you know, things will be okay, we just need to hope that they will be and they’ll get okay without us seeing to do anything.

(10:02):

And then the active optimism is sort of the, we can do this sort of attitude, things will get better, we just need to put our minds to it and we can make a better world. But the trouble with optimism is that it’s quite hard to make a good case for optimism when you read some of the science and the IPCC reports. And so it’s kind of a bit of a hard one to sell these days. And so then he turns to these two forms of skepticism and the passive form of skepticism is like a stoic hope. Well, bad things will happen, but we can rebuild. I mean, we know how to do this. We’ve done this before, we can do this. And the problem with that is that it’s using extreme weather events as a proxy for climate change. And we know, of course, we talked about this in previous episodes, that climate change is way, way more than just extreme weather events.

(10:47):

So that’s kind of insufficient. So that brings us to the active skepticism, which gets otherwise called active hope or that realistic hope that you just talked about it. He actually calls it grounded hope because he says it’s grounded in the reality of what we can see is in front of us. So we’ve got our eyes wide open, but we are still determined to go for it and to keep working and keep finding sustaining motivations because standing by and doing nothing about it is morally unacceptable. And so yeah, I was thinking that in a way that’s kind of what you are talking about.

Professor Ann Sanson (11:20):

That talk reminds me also of a lovely book by John Wiseman, which we put on our resources list about open. He talks about a stubborn optimism, and I quite like that term as well. Maybe it would be helpful if we talked about some of the strategies that we ourselves use to keep ourselves going in this case.

Dr Susie Burke  (11:39):

Yes, I was thinking about that in our second episode, and you were describing the disorganised or the anxious attachment that you might feel in some spaces. And I was thinking, oh, that’s exactly what happens to me when I’m in an urban environment and there’s cars rushing by or I’m in a supermarket and I can’t see anything that’s from the natural world, I feel very disorganized. And so for me, I know that going out and actually being in a forest, being under a shaded tree, shade’s very important for me. Something that I find very psychologically restorative. And I’ve been very interested in all the literature on psychological restoration. And apparently the more biodiverse natural environment, the more psychologically restorative it is to our cognitive capacities and our sense of wellbeing. And so the more butterflies and the more species that you’ve got, apparently the better.

(12:28):

And so I’m very blessed where I live, the forest is just outside my door. And in fact, it was only a few minutes of walking the other day when I found a little train of echidnas crossing my path and the paths all bend and meander, which is also a great feature of soft fascination, which is another one of the things that pops up in the literature on psychological restoration. So yes, for me, I find that enormously helpful and also having a good cry I find very useful. And the other one for me would be the fun. So stepping back into some of the climate activism, but having a fun thing. So for example, this weekend I’m meeting with another one of our activist friends and we are sorting out all the red rebel costumes that we’re borrowing for an action that we’re going to do in front of the magistrate’s court in a few weeks because several of our participants in our group were arrested in a bank because they said they weren’t going to leave until the bank managers said that they wouldn’t fund any further fossil fuels, which was kind of quite an aspirational ask.

(13:27):

So having that sort of fun and collective can-do spirit, I find is also a way that I can keep my energy up.

Professor Ann Sanson (13:35):

Yes, that’s lovely, Susie. That’s similar sort of theme for myself. And finding joy in nature is certainly a really important thing for me too. But another thing for me is being with like-minded people, which is part of the joy of being with you two who are spending so much of your time thinking and working and doing such good work in this area, but also with my local climate activist group where we can share our concerns but also do something about it. So my little mantra of action is the best antidote to anxiety is something that I try to act on every day. But the other also on the fun side is finding joy in music. So I’m a member of the Melbourne Climate Choir and that is a wonderful activity. I’m always impressed at how if we are in a rally, for example, if the choir is in a rally and people might be doing some sort of chanting, no more coal or whatever, and we turn that into a song and you see the faces just soften as they take in the sound of the music that we are creating, being able to sing together with people about things that we care about is to me a very soothing and restorative activity too.

(14:52):

How about you Merle?

Merle Conyer  (14:52):

So certainly some of the ideas you and Susie have mentioned are there in my own life as well to add maybe a couple of others. One of them really I shared in a previous episode, what catapulted me into awakening was in 2015, spending two weeks walking in the western Australian desert with Aboriginal rangers. And it was there that I even became aware of the separation from nature, which I had been culturally accrued into. And that opened for me a really profound grief that was with me for some years. And I found myself teetering on the edge of despair and I had to make a decision what to do with that. And just as both of you have shared before about other social movements, the place I came to is I come out of apartheid South Africa. Some of the listeners may be picking up an accent. And when I was growing up there and even as a young adult, I could never have imagined a peaceful transition. And so I do think that the future is not yet written, therefore I’ve made a conscious decision not to go to despair because I feel to do so would be a betrayal of the future generations. And so I stand very firmly in that place, which is why I dedicate all my actions and all my commitments to young people and the future generations.

(16:19):

And I find that keeps me really solid. It keeps me in a space which has deep meaning, which gives me a sense of purpose. The other thing that I find deeply resourceful, I’ve been very fortunate, and it occurred actually soon after I had the experience in the desert of connecting with some like-minded friends, people who’ve become very dear friends who we would sit together month after month in circle and we would speak and we would share and we would listen and we would witness. And there’s something really powerful about having safer contained spaces where we can bring our anger, our grief, our despair, our questions, our moments of joy, and just be present to each other in that space. And often what was brought into that space, it was creative arts, beautiful food, and a lot of caretaking of each other. And so those are two things that really hold me steady with all the ups and the downs that can come with engaging in this work as well.

Professor Ann Sanson (17:21):

That’s lovely, Merle And what you’re saying, that last part about being with others and sharing reminds me of the work that Psychology for a Safe Climate does, which certainly will put a link to their website on a resources list too. But I think the work that they do to help people cope with their climate grief and worries and move on from it, using the similar sorts of sharing that you are talking about and using our practices and things is really very powerful.

Merle Conyer  (17:50):

I think it’s a good opportunity Ann just to share with the listeners that Psychology for Safe Climate is actually there for mental health providers. It’s a place for us to have circles of support as well as to develop our skills to become climate aware practitioners. And for those who complete some of the psychology for a safe climate activities, there is the possibility to register on the website as a climate aware practitioner, and I actually think that’s an act of service as well, because it can be really hard for members of the community to find mental health practitioners who will provide attuned and empathic support.

Dr Susie Burke  (18:27):

Merle, if I could just add to that too, they also provide training and much shorter training in being able to just facilitate a climate cafe. So that’s a 90-minute sort of monthly or bimonthly or however often you want to run it on Zoom or in person. That’s same, similar sort of group to perhaps the one that you were saying you’ve just established spontaneously with a group of friends.

Professor Ann Sanson (18:49):

Perhaps you should move on and talk about what sort of roles we can actually play. We as mental health providers can play in our work to incorporate climate change the climate crisis into our work as mental health providers. Maybe Merle, would you like to start talking about our roles as clinicians with communities?

Merle Conyer  (19:10):

I think there are so many ways we can support communities more and more. We’ve been called to provide assistance during and after extreme weather events. I think also that one of our roles with communities is to support people who are actually taking action to protect our landscapes, to protect the species and ecosystems, people who are on the front lines who are having experiences of sometimes violence of trauma in stepping into those spaces. And so I do feel that there is potential there for mental health providers to provide support for people who so deeply care and experience sometimes mental health challenges from willingly stepping into those kinds of spaces. Susie, I think you’ve been involved with some disaster recovery work.

Dr Susie Burke  (20:00):

Yeah, well, I suppose one of the roles that I see that mental health practitioners really have in disasters would be around psychological preparedness because we get a lot of information from places like the Red Cross and other emergency services around how to prepare households and things like that, but not too much about how to prepare ourselves psychologically, which is about anticipating what might it be like during a disaster, and then identifying how in your body you can tell that you’re becoming aroused and then thinking beforehand what you might do to calm yourself down. So that would be one example. But then yes, there are lots of things that mental health practitioners could offer to communities in the aftermath, which is not around individual treatment, not treating disaster affected people as people who are needing of mental health care, but rather to be working with communities around how to build the cohesiveness of a community to be teaching the principles of psychological first aid, getting people back together with their friends and loved ones, restoring hope, restoring a sense of safety and things like that.

(21:01):

But I was thinking also Merle when you were talking about this different communities and not in the context of disasters, but I think in other special community that mental health practitioners could be involved with would be supporting young people who are embarking on some legal action because that’s sort of a growing movement around the world where young people are tackling their governments and big corporations, fossil corporations, and claiming that they’re infringing their human rights. And that is a group that also could benefit from the support of people volunteering their time to be an ally or to be a person if needed.

Professor Ann Sanson (21:40):

That’s a really nice example too. So I guess there are a whole range of different roles we can take, aren’t we? So we’ve talked about our roles as clinicians. There’s also our roles for those of us who are involved in research and education as members of professional organisations and as advocates and citizens. So I’d like it if we just very briefly touch on each of those other roles. So maybe if I just talk for a bit for people who are involved in research and education, there are still a lot of knowledge gaps. I don’t think we need any more surveys to show that people are worried. I think we know that well and truly, but there is a lot that we still need to know about what helps people cope with that, what helps people to transform their anxiety into action and so on. And for example, we’ve talked a bit about parenting in the last episode, but to my knowledge, there’s still no properly evaluated parenting program about how we can support parents to support their children in the face of climate change.

(22:39):

So there’s lots of areas where researchers could get involved with the sort of expertise that we all can bring to that. And the other, of course, is in education. And I think it’s just so important that talking about the psychological dimensions of climate change is in all of our curricular at all levels of tertiary education as well as in the primary and secondary schools. So think about psychology, it fits obviously into clinical psychology, but also fits into social psychology and developmental psychology and community psychology. So I think that’s another really important thing too. So I won’t talk more about our roles as researchers and educators, but I think there are lots of opportunities there. But Susie, maybe you can talk about our roles as members of professional organisations.

Dr Susie Burke  (23:22):

So many of us would belong to professional associations, and so there’s lots that we can do there in the form of having position papers and statements, submissions to government inquiries. One of the things that we instituted when we were at the Australian Psychological Society was, and it was Ann’s idea, brilliant idea, was to have at the beginning of any meeting or any conference or anything, an acknowledgement of country followed by an acknowledgement of the climate crisis. So acknowledging that no matter what topic the conference was on, that we are working and operating in a time of climate crisis. It’s already having a major impact on the work that we do, and we’ll continue to have a major impact and that we know what we need to do about it. And the time is now to get busy on participating in solutions. So that frames it, even if you then are going on and talking about obesity for the next hour and a half. I felt that was a really neat, tiny, small little way in which you could be bringing climate into the conversation.

Professor Ann Sanson (24:20):

Yes, so Merle, have you got any thoughts too about working with our professional organisations?

Merle Conyer  (24:24):

I do, Ann. I think professional organisations have a role to play, and it’s very variable at the moment. There are some clinical related professional associations that have made very clear statements around the climate crisis, and there are others who’ve been silent. I’m going to draw on some quite strong words from an American psychiatrist, Lise van Susteren. And what she names is our Duty of Care’s mandatory reporters for those of us working as mental health professionals. And what she suggests is that knowingly handing over a significantly compromised planet in her words is tantamount to child abuse. And she suggests that as mental health practitioners, we are obligated to report this and to take steps to prevent risks of serious harm for children. So this is really raising suggestions around potentially in a professional frame, us being compelled to take action as both a moral and professional obligation in the name of all children now and into the future.

(25:32):

And so I’m really interested to understand how our professional associations might take a stand for that. And then as you already speaking about Ann, start doing a review of the training and the education. So much of our therapeutic training is for one-on-one individuality training. A lot of it is working with pathologizing models that locate distress with an individual, and that distress needs to be ameliorated. We are talking about really different spaces here. We are talking about models of care that move into collective spaces of care about empowering individual and community action. We’re also talking about models of care, which recognise that strong emotional responses to the climate crisis is potentially a healthy sign and therefore is calling us to work in quite different ways with the people who consult with us. So I do think that there is some really important roles for us within our professional associations to do some advocacy to start bringing you about some of the systemic and structural change to what we’re able to contribute.

Professor Ann Sanson (26:39):

Yeah, that’s some powerful ideas there Merle, and I guess the other thing we can do is if our particular professional subgroup isn’t doing anything on climate, we can actually form groups. So I’ve actually been involved in starting a new international group called Developmental Scientists for Climate Action, where we are trying to do all of the above the research, the education, the advocacy as developmental scientists who care about the next generation. So that’s another option for people, I guess. And then I guess as our roles as advocates and citizens, I think we need to be very brief about this, but each of us as individuals can be joining our local climate groups and offering our expertise to those groups. I think that’s a really valuable thing to do.

Merle Conyer  (27:25):

So what you’re naming there, Ann, is the importance for us to be trustworthy role models.

Professor Ann Sanson (27:30):

And with expertise as well to offer.

Merle Conyer  (27:33):

Yes.

Dr Susie Burke  (27:34):

And part of that I guess is also to acknowledge our limitations and our hypocrisies and things like that because that is part of being a trustee role model is to be acknowledging your own emissions when you are having an admitting time in your work or your life. I was also just reading earlier something by Paul Hawkin, and he says that a really interesting way of framing the problem of climate change is to ask, is climate change happening to you or for you? Because if you are just thinking that climate change is happening to you, you tend to feel angry and furious with them, somebody else. But if you understand that climate change has actually been happening for us, we have benefited in these enormous ways. It sort of removes that layer of, oh, it’s somebody else’s fault. I’m so angry about that. And it frees up a whole lot of energy for then being able to go, right, okay, well, what can I do about this thing that I am a part of and partly responsible for? So as advocates and citizens, I think that’s a really interesting way to come at the problem with this surge of energy.

Professor Ann Sanson (28:45):

Yes, a very nice way of framing that. Let’s just quickly talk because we don’t have much time about what some of the other positive opportunities that we have available to us. We’ve talked about all the problems that we have been facing with climate change, but there are positive aspects to this as well. There are possibilities for actually building a better world as we address climate change. Merle, would you like to say a word or two about that?

Merle Conyer  (29:13):

Yeah. I really appreciate you raising this because I think it is really important for us to remember that alongside all the dire predictions, this is also a time for massive potential for transformative change. We are the generation which have an opportunity for change like none that has come before us. And so once again, I think back, Susie, to you talking about ‘the what if’ exercise in a previous episode, one way we can understand the climate crisis, it’s cultural conditioning with a crisis of imagination. So what that offers us to think about then is there is potential within our imaginations to think about transformative change. And that I think is where the hope lies, to think about how we can build increased awareness and concern for our environment and have those deep experiences to really appreciate our interdependence with nature and make life affirming choices in a much more intentional way. I really appreciated, Susie, you talking about the building of stronger community connections, which is so protective through challenging times. And Ann, you’ve spoken really strongly as well as Susie, about meaningful engagement as active citizens. And then for us to be really inspired by creative innovations such as circular economies and other ways of living where we can live joyful, meaningful lives at the same time of being good caretakers of the earth in which we all inhabit.

Dr Susie Burke  (30:47):

The other thing that comes to mind as well is the opportunity for creating that justice and fairness for First Nations people and for underprivileged people to be mindful that we could only solve this by taking care of everybody, which is part of that donut theory. Yes. That idea of we can only do this by looking after everybody, making sure people don’t fall off into the middle of the donut.

Professor Ann Sanson (31:10):

Yes, that’s right. And I think I’m always very heartened by how much climate justice is at the forefront of the climate movement, of being very aware that the people whose lives are going to be directly impacted in the short term, that the coal miners and the meat farmers and things like that have finding just solutions for them is so important as well. So I think there are lots of opportunities for us to be creating a better world through getting on top of this problem, but I think that’s a nice set of positive thoughts for us to end on, I think. So thank you both for those ideas, and thank you to all our listeners for joining us on this episode of MHPN Presents A Conversation About climate change. So you’ve been listening to me Ann Sanson.

Merle Conyer  (31:56):

And me, Merle Conyer,

Dr Susie Burke  (31:58):

And me Susie Burke.

Professor Ann Sanson (32:00):

Now we’ve come to the end of the series. So just to recap very briefly, in the first episode, we set the scene by looking at the climate emergency in relation to clinical practice and mental health and seeing how intimately connected they were. In the second, we talked about our models of clinical practice and how they can be modified to address the climate emergency with lots of great ideas coming, particularly from Susie and Merle around that. In the third, we talked about children and young people as being the people who are going to be most heavily impacted by climate change over their whole lifespan, and how we as mental health providers and as grandparents, others can best support them. And now in this episode, we’ve chatted about what all of this means for us, for those who provide mental health care and support, and for our clients as well as for ourselves.

(32:52):

So we hope that you’ve benefited from this conversation as much as I think we have from each other. And I hope we’ve provided you with some ideas about your practice as a mental health provider in this unprecedented time of climate emergency. It’s such an important conversation to have, and for us each to be considering. Maybe we just have a very tiny bit of time. I know from my perspective, I’ve really enjoyed this conversation with Merle and Susie. Perhaps we can just say there’s a tiny bit about how we’ve inspired each other through this series. Is there one thing that you’ve decided you might do differently after listening to us?

Dr Susie Burke  (33:31):

Oh, yes. Well, I am thinking that I would love to follow up that tree of life exercise, that Merle was sharing in one of her workshops. It sounded like such a holistic way of thinking about the problem and the solutions of climate change. So yes, that was one thing that I thought I’d follow up.

Merle Conyer  (33:47):

Well, Susie, I’ll make sure there’s a video taken of it in a different context with all the materials which I’ve made freely available for anyone to use. So I’ll make sure to pop a link to that in our reference material so that the listeners have access to that as well.

Dr Susie Burke  (34:02):

Oh, aren’t you an angel? Thank you.

Merle Conyer  (34:04):

No, you’re so welcome, and I’m going to take away something from you, Susie, that ‘what if’ exercise that has really inspired me and I’m, I’m going to think about it personally. I’m going to bring it into my one-on-one conversations and into my group conversations, and I feel really excited about those possibilities.

Professor Ann Sanson (34:23):

And I think for me, I’ve been reminded to really focus on the positive aspects of what we are really trying to fight for in tackling climate change and the better world that we do have the possibility of creating. I hope each one of you who’ve been listening will be inspired to make some changes in your lives as clinicians or researchers or as citizens or as parents,

(34:44):

or as grandparents or whatever, or just as people who love this little planet and recognise the extreme threat that it and all of nature and we as a species are facing. It’s a big and difficult topic in many ways, but there are all sorts of positive opportunities in there as well. So if you want to learn more about Merle, Susie or me, or if you want to access the resources that we’ve referred to throughout this series, you can go to the landing page for this episode and previous episodes and follow the hyperlinks. There are lots of materials from all four of the episodes that’ll be available there. I know that MHPN really values your feedback. And on the landing page, you’ll find a link to a feedback survey. Please follow this link and let us know whether you found this series helpful and to provide comments or suggestions about how MHPN can meet your needs the best. And thank you for your commitment to an engagement with interdisciplinary person-centered mental health care. So it’s goodbye then from me,

Merle Conyer  (35:46):

and from me

Dr Susie Burke  (35:47):

And from me.

Host (35:50):

Visit mhpn.org.au to find out more about our online professional program, including podcasts, webinars, as well as our face-to-face interdisciplinary mental health networks across Australia.