School Can’t: Attendance Challenges and Re-engagement

Disclaimer: The following transcript has been autogenerated and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies resulting from the automated transcription process.

Host (00:01):

Hi there. Welcome to Mental Health Professionals Network podcast series. MHPN’s aim is to promote and celebrate interdisciplinary collaborative mental healthcare.

Paige Davey (00:18):

Welcome to Mental Health in Practice, a podcast from the Mental Health Professionals Network. In this episode, we’re focusing on school can’t or school attendance challenges among adolescents and the complexities that can underpin them. We’ll explore how these challenges show up, why multidisciplinary care matters, and the practical strategies that can help students reengage with school. My name’s Paige Davey. I’m a re-engagement specialist and neurodivergent specialist, and in the past was a teacher and former principal of an autism specific school. And I’m joined today by Richard Crawshaw, who is the founder of Can’t Face School.

Richard Crawshaw (00:55):

Hi, Paige. It’s nice to be here doing this with you.

Paige Davey (00:58):

Hi, Richard. Same back. So starting the conversation, so why is this an important conversation to be having right now?

Richard Crawshaw (01:07):

Look, school can’t is an increasing problem. Some even call it an epidemic. It’s not just Australia-wide, it’s globally. In fact, I think that I’m right in saying there’s over 483,000 kids across Australia, or young people who are eligible to go to school, are not attending near the expected rate of about 90%. We’ve got a whole big cohort out there that are not able to flourish and live their life and be themself. It’s a problem now, even more so because it’s caused a lot of stress with families and with parents who are feeling a lot of shame and embarrassment about this and not knowing how to face it or where to turn to. And it’s also, I think, important because it’s an opportunity here to align the health department with the education department. And I’m finding that those conversations are really important when managing with some of this work.

Paige Davey (01:57):

So you mentioned about the collaboration between mental health services or health department and education department and the importance of that collaboration. We’ll touch on it later too. So I guess we’ll continue to explore how it shows up in real practice and how different professional roles approach it and one insight that’s maybe shifting some practice.

Richard Crawshaw (02:19):

I think that multidisciplinary work is important at this point because schools in particular are needing support with this. We’ve got some amazing teachers and principals and education workers out there, but there is an increasing movement to align wellbeing with learning. And I think that we’ve got so much to learn from our allied health colleagues with this work. And there’s some really important accommodations from the work that they’re doing with young people and families that schools really need to be listening to and working with. And I think when there’s a sensible and calm conversation around that, then that’s the value of working in a team. It’s great having a large team. I think it’s really important to acknowledge everyone’s role in it and the young person as well.

Paige Davey (03:04):

Absolutely. And as you touched on this, it’s really complex. How does it show up? How can school can’t or difficulties attending school show up for young people?

Richard Crawshaw (03:15):

Oh, it can show up in many different ways. It can show up in terms of them physically, having physical signs of stress, sweating even, absconding, getting even quite physically or verbally violent at home. It can show up in levels of their frustration in feeling that they can’t access the learning or they can’t access the environment or there’s too many people. So their sensory needs sometimes coming into play as well with that. Is that some of the things you’ve been finding as well?

Paige Davey (03:47):

I think to a lot of the families and students that I’ve worked with specifically around this issue, the anxiety and the internal struggles that the students are having because of the internal nature, it’s difficult to see them. And so it’s difficult for schools to see them. And sometimes the withdrawal internally away from school also can coincide withdrawing away from their paraprofessional help as well, their psychologists or OTs or speech therapists. And it can sort of accumulate into the completely withdrawing. So then the challenge there is how to unpack the situation for that person and help them be open too, to letting someone in to support them.

Richard Crawshaw (04:35):

And one I think can lead to another. We think of young people who are having issues maybe with bullying or social struggles or whatever that might well be, then they don’t go to school. They don’t go out, which then can lead to a lot of learning missed and then can make them feel that academic pressure of, “Oh no, I’ve missed so much. How am I going to catch up with all of this? ” And then one pressure can build onto another pressure as well.

Paige Davey (05:05):

Because I think too, because a lot of these things are kind of outside the curriculum, the traditional curriculum that schools think about and teachers think about on a daily basis. Some of these things are like you’re talking about anxiety or problem solving and organisation, but the things that where schools, it’s not their main business. Their main business is curriculum and learning the content. So I think that’s where, again, understanding the student in a broader way outside of just that kind of focus is tricky for schools. And again, the importance of bringing in other voices. And one of the things I think I’ve noticed with families is I think all of the families have that sense of responsibility and carry some blame or shame with what’s happening in terms of their student, which again, it’s if we could remove some of those, then that would again help with the conversation towards working out what’s going on for the student.

Richard Crawshaw (06:10):

And I love working with you, Paige, just because Paige and I do work together. I think that your level of understanding of how school runs and is operated and bringing in that level of empathy for these parents and families is a really nice combination of balance of understanding the pace of some of this work, if that makes sense.

Paige Davey (06:27):

Yeah. I think it’s because I’ve been really lucky in my career that because I have worked mainly in the autism education field, I’ve always had to have that curiosity and it’s not always obvious what’s happening because many of the students might have a challenge around communicating what’s happening for them. So I’ve always had to be that detective. So that aspect fits really nicely with working with the families and the schools who may be struggling to understand what’s going on, what’s happening behind the scenes or internally with their child or student. And a lot of our young people may be neurodivergent. I know Richard, in terms of Can’t Face School, roughly the amount of kids that are neurodivergent.

Richard Crawshaw (07:17):

Probably around the 60%, 60, 65% mark of our clientele fall into that bracket. Yeah.

Paige Davey (07:23):

And I think we know that generally, even though we don’t have good stats in Australia, that the neurodivergent population is impacted a little bit more with challenges with school.

Richard Crawshaw (07:32):

Yeah. And the other percentages, those young people that have diagnosed anxiety or depression, as well as that, there’s the dual diagnosis and a combination of the two and one leading into the other.

Paige Davey (07:43):

So in terms of like multidisciplinary care, what do you think helps?

Richard Crawshaw (07:48):

We quite often bring together and have a care team meeting, which I’m sure that many listeners here would have been a part of, and schools as well, but not necessarily a care team that’s about this. I think that we talk about the complexity of this problem, and I think that what’s important in this with a multidisciplinary team is that we bring this back to the individual. We’ve got a massive toolkit of strategies and tools that we can share with all this, but like I say, we can’t throw solutions at a problem if we don’t know the problem first. And so I think the beauty of having a multidisciplinary care team in these meetings is being able to ask, “What are you currently working on with this young person? And what are your goals for the next maybe school term or six weeks or whatever that might well be?”

(08:33):

And when everyone can hear that and listen to that, then we can have some clarity around getting a plan to move forward about what that might well look like. And I think I find as well that having a neutral person to chair and host that meeting is really powerful because it can diffuse the huge amount of heightened anxiety and feelings that might well have, particularly with parents and carers as well. So I think when parents and carers can sit back and just listen to the professionals talking and we can get some clarity around what we’re talking about here, then we can start to build a plan and to have some goals together. And what our allied health colleagues bring to the table with that is so very important, like I said before, for schools to hear, because then they can work at it on the ground level and the teachers and wellbeing staff out there can work their magic as they need to once they can be aligned.

(09:20):

I agree.

Paige Davey (09:21):

And I think that all the professionals have different lenses and the way that they observe or understand what’s happening, whereas I think teachers need to be generalists, be across a lot of information. So as a teacher, we rely on that extra help and support as well. And it’s hard to know which advice to take sometimes too, and it’s a bit of trial and error. And I find the work prior to like you’re talking about the care team meetings, I know that we do in terms of talking to families to support them also in preparation for those meetings, whether that’s content preparation or just feeling okay about being in the room with all of these professionals can be a bit intimidating at times, especially if you’re one parent and you’ve got half a dozen professionals in the room. And then too, from the school’s perspective too, I feel like those conversations, having them with the school and understanding their perspective and relating as an educator also helps coming into the meetings where we try and, like you’re saying, build the bridge and be that facilitator to support the student.

Richard Crawshaw (10:30):

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And I think there is a lot of pressure in schools at the moment. Teachers have to manage a lot. There’s averaging, what, 20 to 25 kids in a classroom. They don’t get the luxury of having that one-on-one support that an OT or a psychologist or a play therapist or whoever that might well be, might have. So if that information when it’s given to them is short and sharp and to the point and aligned, then they can allocate resources accordingly to support it.

Paige Davey (10:56):

Absolutely. I think too, from my perspective, if the professionals have had a chance to be in the classroom with the person, if they are still attending school, if they’re not at the point where they’re not going at all, I think that helps get a context and understanding of the context that the students are in as well. So I know a lot of schools have, they may have those people in their schools or are open to having them come to the school. And I think those things have really helped. And I know parents have been really happy to use some of their time that they have with their OT or their speech therapist or their psychologist for them to go into the school and see the context. And so that the information that they’re providing or they’re supporting can be informed by that as well. We’re used to classrooms, but not everyone is. So it might mean adjusting the help and support too.

Richard Crawshaw (11:52):

I think it’s worth saying, and just reminding us all that I think the most important person in a multidisciplinary care team is the young person themselves. And I’m not saying that they need to be attending in that meeting because that’s pretty scary when you’ve got five or six adults in a room with you, but their voice is so pinnacle to this. And I think that’s a nice alignment between these two worlds here. And schools are familiar with the term student voice and agency, and they do have that as a part of their work. And when you’re using that language with schools, then they can hear that. And we’ve got health professionals here that are able to do that investigative curious work one-on-one in a safe space, but that voice is pinnacle to helping these kids reengage in whatever it is or school or learning.

Paige Davey (12:35):

Absolutely. Yeah. If they have the goal, then it’s more likely, I think, that they’ll work on achieving that goal rather than people around them making that goal for them. And then how do we support them through that process? And everyone sort of wants to do that, but it’s not always easy to capture that. And recently I’ve had these situations where it’s like, how do you capture that student voice? Because some young people are really good at being able to articulate what’s going on for them and what’s going on inside of them and why it’s difficult to be at school. And for some kids, it’s just a horrible feeling and then not yet able to articulate that and what’s going on for them and why, and maybe what’s built up over the last two weeks that’s meant going to school today just seems impossible. So we do really rely on families and other people like psychologists and other people who know the kids really well to help us understand what that student voice might be.

(13:33):

And we don’t always get it right. Yeah.

Richard Crawshaw (13:35):

Yeah. We’ve got a good toolkit here at Can’t Face School, which can assist with some of that because it is really hard to talk about, but I know that there’s some great OTs and psychs out there that have got some cards that people can organise. They don’t even have to talk and they can still get that message across. I remember being at a school for autism myself and I was overseeing the student voice and agency team and part of that school. And we had 70% of those kids at that school were nonverbal, but they still managed to run what they needed to run within the school. So everyone can have a student voice if we’d be curious and investigative enough to allow that space for them to access that at whatever level that might well be.

Paige Davey (14:11):

Yeah. Getting creative.

Richard Crawshaw (14:12):

Yeah, that’s right.

Paige Davey (14:14):

And we’ve touched on some of the barriers and enablers, but should we talk about maybe some of the things we haven’t touched on yet and maybe some of the systemic barriers around school and if someone is struggling to attend for all of the complex reasons, what are some of the things for teachers or schools that may be out of their control that kind of get in the way?

Richard Crawshaw (14:37):

Look, it’s a good question. I’ll go back to 2023 and there was a school refusal Senate inquiry. Unfortunately, part of these recommendations were pushed back on states and territories as opposed to having a national approach to managing some of this work. So a lot of us are working in silo here. That means that systemically, a lot of the data that’s collected around this is very loose. And the wording of some of those things that parents have to tick on those boxes when they’re saying why their kid isn’t attending school, school refusal tick or family leave or whatever that is, it’s very, very-

Paige Davey (15:12):

Parent approved.

Richard Crawshaw (15:13):

Parents approved. It can bring a lot of shame and embarrassment even when they receive those emails or phone calls or whatever that might well be. So I think that systemically there’s a lot of change that needs to happen here for this to be aligned, but that increases the opportunity that I see with our work working on the ground level to do that with individual families. And I think that when we do that, that shows an example to other families as well.

Paige Davey (15:36):

I think there is that expectation because there’s recognition that for school attendance is becoming, for some, an issue and the numbers are increasing. And so there’s concerns about it with the understanding that attendance is part of success in learning through school. Do you think what is being measured is necessarily aligned to helping us understand what’s going on?

Richard Crawshaw (16:01):

Well, I think that a problem here is that we are measuring attendance data. I’m not really interested in attendance data. I’m much more interested in engagement data because with engagement data, there’s a lot more fluidity with that. We can measure what’s working and what’s not working. It seems a lot more progressive to me. If we’re looking at just bums on seats, how many days they’re here and how many days they’re not, I don’t see that as helping. In fact, it’s probably having a negative impact on many of the families from having spoken to them and getting that feedback.

Paige Davey (16:34):

Because it increases the pressure for them.

Richard Crawshaw (16:36):

Because it increases the pressure for them. Yeah, absolutely.

Paige Davey (16:38):

So then higher anxiety…

Richard Crawshaw (16:39):

And stress. Yeah, yeah. We’ve got to go to school tomorrow. We’ve got to do this. There’s a whole big piece of work in the middle of that before we can get to that point. Does that align with what you think with some of that?

Paige Davey (16:48):

Yes. I think engagement at school, time at school, there’s lots of expectations around that from school and also from families. I mean, and it does get complex because of course, often while the kids are at school, parents are working. So the pressure then increases too, and it becomes about that because if the families are listening to their child and they’re very stressed and can’t attend school, that has flow on effect in terms of at home, maybe one parent is not able to go to work and can create more barriers in terms of then financially. And then if you’re financially stressed, how do you access some of these supports as well? So it’s sort of a bit of a cycle. And I think for schools, time always gets in the way. And I know there’s things going on at the moment around teachers and their workload. And part of that is, if you ask us most teachers, it’ll be, “What do you wish you had more of?”

(17:48):

” Time, time”. And so it’s often jumping around between things and shifting really quickly. So how do they spend the time that might be needed to kind of unpack some of this as well?

Richard Crawshaw (18:01):

And it’s a great discussion that, isn’t it, in terms of how best do we use our time? Well, we’ve only got X amount of time that we’ve got allocated for that and best use our resources to address this problem rather than going around in the hamster wheel or groundhog day as it were. I think if we’re better to allocate our resources, we could have such more traction with some of this, I think.

Paige Davey (18:23):

Absolutely. And so in terms of the things that actually help, and I guess Richard and I can talk about our experience with Can’t Face School in terms of what we see that helps. What are some of the positives in terms of what we are doing with families and schools do you think helps the situation?

Richard Crawshaw (18:42):

Well, I think the first thing is being curious and doing that investigative piece. When we take the time to be curious, and I love being curious, I love being an investigator. I love trying to figure out what the problem is because it can be really tricky sometimes, but I think that that helps and it helps draw something out of this young person with questions that they may not have ever even been asked to do with why they’re not attending school. And it helps because it can give some good context to parents about why their young person or why their kids not attending school as well. Often find that when we do work with young people that we often say, no parents allowed. So we can give them some space to be able to talk and build that trust with us before we move. So I think that’s what helps to answer the question is moving at a slower pace, but a progressive pace as well.

(19:29):

We don’t want to be sitting in a space that’s not doing anything. When we slowly crack open that egg, we can begin to make some progress, not even mention about going to school until we’ve gone through that process. I think we rush through that. And like I said before, we’re throwing solutions at a problem that we don’t know yet.

Paige Davey (19:44):

I agree that curiosity is really important. I think in terms of working with families too, I really like having those conversations with parents where I ask a lot of questions, probably drive them crazy sometimes. But in terms of helping them to kind of rethink as well, because I think sometimes we all get caught up in the way that we process the information or what we focus on. And I always used to say to families at school that you’ve probably got the solutions and maybe I’ve got the questions to kind of help us get there because they do know their kids so well, but then coming in with a slightly different perspective and asking different questions might prompt them to go down a different path and think about something they haven’t thought about before. But the trust thing that you were talking about before, Richard’s so important with the student and with the families.

(20:38):

And it’s perfectly natural that that takes time. You don’t instantly trust people and you’re actually sharing some very vulnerable things about yourself and your family and you need to kind of get that space with them, that non-judgmental conversational space. And I love it when parents or someone will just disagree with me openly because I know they feel comfortable to do so.

Richard Crawshaw (21:03):

Yeah, absolutely.

Paige Davey (21:03):

When I said, “Oh, I think that maybe this, ” and they go, “Nope, that’s not it. ” I know then, “Okay, great. We’ve got some real honesty going on in this conversation.”

Richard Crawshaw (21:13):

Well, I have so many parents who would come up to any of us who say, “Oh, can you just solve this problem for me? Can you just do it? ” “Oh, I don’t know what to do. I’m going out of my head here. And I know we boldly say,” No, we can’t just do that for you. We can help you and we’ll coach you and we’ll help you go through it absolutely and we’ll work with your team, but you’ve got to come on this journey with us and take this opportunity to change your narrative at home and to change how you’re approaching things and be open to learning and changing your mindset with it. And it’ll be life changing. The amount of tears that we have had in our work, that’s not just from me, but from everyone, but it’s a beautiful thing, like you say, because it shows that vulnerability and it shows that this is life changing work here.

Paige Davey (21:53):

We get just as excited with the small steps forward, because I find sometimes you kind of aren’t trying to unpack initially the immediate present of what’s going on. And sometimes I find you’ve got to go way back to the seed. Has this always been the case? When did the person, the young person first feel that sense of being uncomfortable at school? Because I think when sometimes meeting the students and it’s got to the point where maybe they’re attending little or not at all or it’s starting to break down, the seeds of it has been a long time ago. So again, having the time to kind of unpack that as well.

Richard Crawshaw (22:32):

It’s a good and really important point. And I’m just thinking if I briefly summarise a couple of themes that are coming out of this conversation, I think that again, that multidisciplinary team and holistic approach is a really important theme here because some of that information that we’re talking about here can be putting some really good context from the psychologist and OTs that we work with. And sometimes that’s really hard for parents to articulate as well as the young person. So I think if we have a holistic approach to this work, then it can make life a lot easier, A), for the school. I put them at the front of my mind at the minute for understanding about how they can best support any transition that’s going to be happening with these young people getting back into school. But I think it gives it clarity a lot more so for the parents who are in the thick of it at the forefront of it, the ones every morning trying to drag their kid out of bed.

(23:18):

They’re trying to step back. Trying to put the clothes on, trying to put the socks on, trying to put the shoes on, trying to get them out the door, or even with those kids that haven’t been out of the house for a couple of years even. We’ve had some of those to get out to walk the dog or whatever that might well be. But the second thing, I think just with the theme of this, I think I’ve just come back to that word, being curious again, it’s such a critical part of this work. And when we just take a little bit of time for that, you can almost see the physical change in young people when you ask them these questions. You almost see it in the parents as well. And that’s a very, very powerful thing that can help change some of this work.

Paige Davey (23:51):

And I think that the part you mentioned about before and trust with the student too, sometimes I can tell when the student really trusts that I’m listening to them, that they are being heard and that something comes out of that.

Richard Crawshaw (24:04):

And that trust, even with that, finding that one person at the school that –

Paige Davey (24:08):

Yes.

Richard Crawshaw (24:08):

Who you’re going to be talking to, and I think even for this audience here for this podcast, it’s a really good thing to keep it on the top of your notebook, who’s that one person that you’re going to keep talking to. If you get a different person each time or not the right person, then you may not get the traction that you need, but that one person that trusts. And even when you ask that young person, who is it at the school that you trust? That’s a really great question.

Paige Davey (24:30):

Absolutely. And it’s also then if they’ve got that one person at the school, then they know that they can go there. And so they’re less likely to want to sort of go away from the environment as well. And yes, I’ve seen how that has worked in different settings for a person when they’ve had that person, they’re more likely to stay there and work through the problem compared to if they haven’t got that person.

Richard Crawshaw (24:55):

Yeah. And that person can then be a really important one to share it with the necessary staff.

Paige Davey (25:00):

Which often could be the wellbeing person in the school or the mental health practitioner. It might not necessarily be the teacher or the education support person, though it can be them as well. So in terms of reflection on your practice while you’ve been working in this space, Richard, and I know you’ve been working in this space for a number of years, how many years?

Richard Crawshaw (25:22):

Oh gosh, I started this business three and a half years ago, but I’ve been in reengagement with the young people into school for 16 years now.

Paige Davey (25:31):

And I know ever changing, ever learning, but the most recent thing that maybe has changed your practice that you want to share.

Richard Crawshaw (25:38):

The thing I keep coming back to is slowing down this process. I’m so grateful to have met wonderful people like yourself, Paige, as well as the rest of the team. And when I do meet like- minded people, I’m so grateful to be learning from them. This is not a McDonald’s model. It’s an ever-changing model. And I think that because we’re dealing with individuals here, it has to be moulded individually to them. So I think that’s what’s changed is. I may have in the past had a good toolkit of strategies and resources that I can put on the table, which I’ve still got, but it doesn’t mean anything until I’ve really understood that individual and that person. So I think that’s something that’s always changing and people bring different things to the table with some of that as well.

Paige Davey (26:20):

I think for me, in terms of changing my practice, and I’m not sure whether it’s a change or just the continual recognition of the need for patients, and I think it’s natural like everybody involved in these situations to want to have the answer straight away. And sometimes I feel that pressure too, “Oh gosh, I need to have the answer straight away,” but I don’t. So to trust the process and be patient with the process and know that whilst everyone’s working together to kind of pursue understanding that slowly some of the things that will help that individual person will come to light and we will get that. But when you’re first starting, sometimes it’s hard to remind yourself of that and where that information come from. Yeah, you’ve got to be open to hearing that. And so I think that’s where we’re so fortunate we kind of are middle people in this situation when we talking to schools, we talk to psychologists, we talk to OTs, we talk to the student, and that’s a real gift in terms of trying to help bring it all together for people.

Richard Crawshaw (27:28):

Yeah. And I think that listening is always ongoing learning. The more we listen, I know that’s definitely helped me. I know there’s been times in my career where I perhaps have heard it, but haven’t properly listened to it and I’ve moved into something that I would have otherwise thought is the answer, but no, I need to listen. And when I do that, I find that we get to a better place.

Paige Davey (27:47):

Yes. And that active listening in the moment’s really important. But then I kind of do rely on some instinctual part of this as well, where I sort of think there’s something missing “This is not making sense to me. ” And I do have a very kind of logical processing style. So it’s like something’s just not connecting and not clicking for me yet. I trust that instinct too, but also again, trust that it takes time to get there. Try not to push it.

Richard Crawshaw (28:13):

Well said. The only thing that I was just thinking about was this conversation can get so very heightened sometimes and a lot of emotions can get into play when we’ve got parents and teachers and well even allied health workers in as well. And I think that have seen some parents who really appreciate having that neutral person to diffuse the situation and give them a bit more clarity. And I think that, I know I’ve heard you talk about this before, Paige, the feedback from parents or even just from our instinctive observations that when they’ve listened to the way that we operate and the way that we talk with schools or with other professionals, that it’s helped them and calmed them down and given them a bit more clarity and understanding. And that’s not an insulting comment in any means. It just means that I feel that this is a stressful conversation and a deep hole that you can find yourself in.

Paige Davey (29:03):

And supporting confidence for families too. I think even as a teacher and someone who’s been involved in leadership as well and as a parent, I know how hard it is to walk in and have those meetings at school. Even when you’re part of the education system and department, it’s quite different when you have that emotional connection with your child, as of course you do. So I think that having someone that’s maybe a little bit separate from that can help as well, but also invested. And I think in terms of the difference between advocacy work and what we do …

Richard Crawshaw (29:40):

I know I have struggled with the word advocacy and advocate because I feel like I’m taking aside. However, I think that with that word that, and I think this might be what you’re getting at with this question is that we can help clarify the conversation, some of the information that we may well have heard when working with parents or we think. And so it comes across in a different way. And It removes that emotion as you’re maybe alluding to there, which can really help.

Paige Davey (30:04):

I think too, we can provide the context of the school and school systems, which parents aren’t always involved with. So we may understand, oh, this happened, like getting the message from the school on your phone about your child not being at school and things like that. We understand where the policy comes from and we can help parents understand maybe the intent is not always how it lands on them too.

Richard Crawshaw (30:29):

And sometimes what’s possible and what’s not possible within a school because some things come across in this world and it’s just unrealistic. It’s just not going to happen. But we can do it this way. We can approach it this way instead. And if that’s the deeper goal here, then why don’t we do it, try it on this way. I find that that in terms of maybe advocate, maybe that word sits with that.

Paige Davey (30:48):

And for schools, when those situations happen, a family is very clear about what would be supportive for their student and then a school is sort of saying, “Well, that’s great, but in terms of our environment, that’s going to be really hard for us to do. ” So also helping the school translate that into something that can be done as a whole class or a whole school. Little things that can happen that really help at that level, that’s not necessarily an individual adjustment, that it might be something that can be done for all children and help all children.

Richard Crawshaw (31:18):

And how often do we hear that? Oh my gosh, I’ve got so many kids who could benefit from that. And amazing mental health practitioners that I’ve worked with in the past when they’ve come up with some of those really cool and inventive creative strategies, that’s so powerful and so amazing. I’ve never even heard of some of these things myself. And that’s again, I think a lovely handshake that’s happening here.

Paige Davey (31:37):

A recent one that’s just come to mind is just talking to teachers about allowing more processing time. The speed of the day and the demands for teachers, for students, for everyone, can kind of start the pressure increasing. So just being aware of how you’re communicating and allowing people processing time before responding and the difference that that can make for someone.

Richard Crawshaw (31:59):

And even in some of those gradual exposure plans that we might well put together, having that quieter space or environment to have some of that time before integrating into the classroom and having that stepping stone as well is a great point of negotiation discussion. I think that’s what the young person wants. Yeah.

Paige Davey (32:15):

Well, Richard, we’re almost out of time. Is there any final thoughts or burning questions? You don’t have to have the answers.

Richard Crawshaw (32:24):

I don’t always have the answers. Look, I’m just really glad that this topic’s being talked about and people are listening and it’s obvious with this epidemic with all these young people and families that are trying to manage this, I guess final word is pass on some hope. There are things that you can do to change this situation and make a life a more positive space for you and your young person. And keep talking and asking those questions and seeking out those people who are going to listen and who are going to help. We’ve got so many examples of this working in our little business and they’re really important to highlight those positive moments and those big changes that we’ve had because it can change and I’m confident that it will eventually.

Paige Davey (33:03):

Thanks, Richard. And thanks everyone for listening to The Mental Health In Practice, a podcast from the Mental Health Professionals Network. If you’d like to learn more about today’s guests, that’s us, or access related resources, please visit this episode’s landing page, and we’d love to have your feedback. So you’ll find a short survey on the landing page to share what was useful, what you’d like to hear more of, and thank you for your commitment to multidisciplinary care and lifelong learning.

Host (33:30):

Visit mhpn.org.au to find out more about our online professional programme, including podcasts, webinars, as well as our face-to-face interdisciplinary mental health networks across Australia.