Transitions: Evolving Through Uncertainty

Disclaimer: The following transcript has been autogenerated and may contain occasional errors or inaccuracies resulting from the automated transcription process.

Host (00:00):

Hi there. Welcome to Mental Health Professionals Network podcast series MHPN’s aim is to promote and celebrate interdisciplinary collaborative mental health care.

Dr Monica Moore (00:17):

Welcome to Transitions, the series of conversations between a GP and a mental health social worker where we share our perspectives on life’s changes, the challenges, the gifts, and what we find fascinating and helpful in our personal and our professional lives. I’m Monica Moore, a GP with a special interest in mental health, and with me is my friend Julianne White.

Ms Julianne Whyte (00:39):

And G’day everybody. Yes. I’m a mental health social worker from beautiful, sunny rural New South Wales.

Dr Monica Moore (00:44):

And today we’re going to be talking about the transitions that occur when we have to change jobs or when we lose our job or when we lose our home. All of these things that have come up through being exposed to a pandemic. And it’s one of the things that’s been fascinating because it’s been part of our work and we thought it’s a very topical thing to talk about. And so what have you noticed?

Ms Julianne Whyte (01:09):

Just uncertainty. Lots of people. Now I’ve got lots of clients who have got, and even friends and family that got specific health issues and just the uncertainty of what tomorrow will be. And I think we got through the last year pandemic with some certainty, even though it was the new normal and we came into Christmas with the new normal. Now remember when New South Wales and other states have got other issues, but then now we’ve got, oh my God, we dunno if it’s going to be tomorrow. Can I travel? Can I do this? Will I be locked down and be stuck somewhere? There’s still a heightened sense of uncertainty and it’s creeping through everywhere from the kids going to school. I just feel for those Perth kids, so they had their start of school delayed another week and it’s infecting some of the kids I’ve got in therapy. They’re like, oh, well do we start or do we not? So just uncertainty. And then that’s bringing up all those things around adjustment and then that affects mood and food and sleep and all that stuff. So that’s what I’m seeing. What do you notice? What do people come to a GP with?

Dr Monica Moore (02:10):

Well, that’s the thing, isn’t it? Because I mean people come to GP’s for all sorts of reasons, but one of the things I think that’s been part of the conversation with my colleagues and friends is that idea that the financial burden that occurs the minute you’re not sure about your job and even if you have got a job and you haven’t lost your job, I have people I know who are in the arts and of course they’ve lost their livelihood. And it’s more, as you say, it’s the uncertainty. It’s the not knowing, but it’s also the day-to-day, how are we going to pay our bills? And as a GP, how can you support? But at the same time you’re running a business. It’s very difficult. But I think the thing that stayed with me was how differently people respond. And I was really pondering that question about what makes us respond differently to life’s challenges. What is it about, is it our personality? That thing about nature, nurture and about our environment and society and all of these sorts of things. What are your thoughts about why is it that people have such a different reaction?

Ms Julianne Whyte (03:27):

Look, and I’m a bit like you, I spend a lot of time thinking, why are we seeing such a different level? And my feeling is, and please correct me if you think differently, and I dunno, I’ve not had this conversation with any of my colleagues yet, but I think it’s almost like a trauma reaction. It’s been an external force. It’s not been something in part of a normal life’s journey. It’s not part of what we would expect to happen. How this whole change has been forced onto us by external forces. We have daily updates in the media, so we don’t know till we get a briefing. How do we react today? Well, we’ve got to wait for a briefing. I think it’s new and different. This is not a normal life course, normal adjustment. Normal, normal life chains, Monica. And I think what we are seeing is people having this sense of almost little T trauma uncertainty.

(04:23):

It’s just like, because what I’m hearing is a sense of hopelessness, helplessness, and loss of control. And they’re the three things that I put down as being sort of that chronic traumatization reaction that people have, which is like, I just don’t get it. I dunno what will happen tomorrow. I can’t make plans, I can’t see my children. That happens in normal day to day. Often you don’t see your kids and friends for maybe six months, but that could be normal choice as opposed to this is an external force that’s been put upon me. What’s your thought on that? I’ve not expressed that out publicly yet, so gosh, it’s sharing a little bit a lot today.

Dr Monica Moore (05:01):

Yeah, yeah. But you are right. I mean as clinicians, as a GP, I’m kind of going, yep, everybody’s suffering. I’m suffering. I’m expecting to have that. But then it’s more, I’m kind of surprised at the people who don’t have the trauma reaction or the people who have the trauma reaction where I kind of go, wow, you are seeing it as something really big and I’m finding it difficult to see it from your perspective. What do I mean? Okay, so I’ll give examples. Okay, so there’s been a lot in the news, and I guess I’ve sort of looked for it as well about the kindness of strangers and the support that’s been given, especially overseas. And I often wonder about what is it about human beings that you look outside of yourself, you are. Because normally if we are in distress, we tend to look inward.

(06:01):

We tend to become focused on our own distress and how to fix it before we can actually even notice that someone else beside us is distressed. But what is it about some people where they’re, they’re able to stay grounded and centered. And there are people in Sweden called Anonamouse who do this miniature scenes that they install in the windows of the low lying windows of cellars in the buildings in Sweden. And it’s all for mice. So there’s a hairdresser for mice and a record company for mice and a restaurant for mice. And it’s got all these little details in miniature and it’s fascinating and it’s like to create joy in the moment when people are really preoccupied. And so all of these sorts of things that are happening, and I often wonder how much of it is genetic, how much of it is, are we born with a certain tendency towards being a bit more outward looking and positive? Or is it all related to how our life experiences and how we’ve learned to manage that kind of thing?

Ms Julianne Whyte (07:18):

Look, I think you’re right on all of those. It’s probably a huge combination of all of that. I think there’s a lot of environmental, our personal traits, do we cope with change and do we adapt well? So maybe it’s about adaptability, whether we’ve had previous experiences or whether we’re in an uncertain phase anyway in our life and in transition. And then another transition. I’m wondering whether it’s the multiplicity of and the ongoingness and uncertainty of the ending that for some people who might have been going through a transition anyway, that this has added another layer of busyness and lack of predictability when they’re trying to find a safe landing place anyway, that there’s uncertainty to start with. And we add another layer that’s a bit tricky, I’m wondering, and then there’s the personality traits, people that just don’t do this well and really like their certainty in life because I’ve got a couple of beautiful young mom who’s way out, quite isolated, who’s a photographer, and she put it out on Facebook that she’s doing photos through your window. How did people live their lives through the window? So bringing the inside out, she said she had a huge response from people that just wanted her to stand outside their window at the fence and taking photographs of them doing life. So bringing them out and it was just beautiful. And then even in my local community, we had a photographer doing a hallway driveway photographs of people standing in their driveway.

(08:53):

And that was quite remarkable, the photos that she produced of families. So I think people have ways of coping. So yeah, maybe all of the above. Monica.

Dr Monica Moore (09:03):

And what you’re saying about that creativity, I was thinking if you had that kind of expression, a growth mindset or a fixed mindset, and that sort of growth mindset is where you see life as ever evolving and you look for resources to help you to do that transition. And what are the resources that each person finds and how do you look for them? And then that fixed mindset, which is where you think, no, no, I can’t grow, I can’t develop, develop new resources. This is the way I am. I’m fully developed and I’m fully fashioned. I can’t change. And the fact that the world has changed, well that’s the catastrophe and it’ll never be the same again. And I think it’s that, I mean, I know I’m sort of describing it from the outside, but I’m always curious about how to help people to move from a more fixed mindset to a growth mindset, because I think that’s what we need when we are going through our transitions in life. We need to believe that we are going to get something good out of this.

Ms Julianne Whyte (10:13):

That’s right. I agree with you. One of the things I use too is going back to some of the acceptance and commitment stuff and talk to people about values and what values they have about predictability, certainty, reliability, and maybe if they’ve found that the people, the powers that be don’t have predictability, reliability, is this more a schema type of response where my core beliefs are really challenged, it’s

(10:41):

like, oh wow, this just shouldn’t have happened. As opposed to just uncertainty per se. So if we explore people’s values around what they expect of themselves and what they expect of others, especially people in leadership or people around them or managers or employers, whether that’s an exploration of values and whether they can see almost using those mentalization skills where you’re thinking about my thinking, thinking about their thinking and doing that near and far looking. So I’m thinking this, what would other people be thinking? How does that sit with you? What do you feel? What’s going on for you as you’re thinking about that person’s thinking and getting people to risk? Get that, seeing, how can I explain it? Just to really expand their thinking so that it’s open and not blocked by I can’t do this, I can’t do this. This is all too hard. Rather than being okay, I can see there’s opportunities and possibilities and sometimes sitting, I think shifting it from just the moment to something more deep and meaningful around schemas or values, I found a bit of in working with people that way.

Dr Monica Moore (11:51):

I was thinking about where I get caught up as a GP and where I get stuck and I feel really frustrated. I go, God, I don’t think I’m actually helping this person at all. And it’s around when people can’t do that. I was thinking there, there’s a guy called Ethan Cross who talked about first, second and third person, and he says, if I say I am scared, then I’m kind of in it. I can’t do anything. I’m in it. If I say second person, Monica, you are really scared about this, aren’t you? Yeah, I can see you’re really scared, you’re terrified. Then I’m kind of observing it a bit more. That gives me a little bit more clarity and it also might help me to see the next step what I have to do. It’s almost like that question when you say to someone, well what could you do in that situation? And they go, I don’t know. Go well, what would you tell a friend? And then that’s kind of like a different perspective, isn’t it? We are helping people to

Ms Julianne Whyte (12:58):

Like the third person external from them.

Dr Monica Moore (13:02):

So the third person is Monica looks really scared.

Ms Julianne Whyte (13:07):

But that takes us back to, in the previous episode we talked about narrative that actually takes us up to those thick, rich stories that people bring up, I can’t cope, I can’t manage. And perhaps us looking outside for exceptions so that we can make richer these thin stories. And what I love about narrative approaches and narrative therapy is that we externalise. So you can actually say thus scared or when scared comes. So we actually make it separate to the person and see it as if scared was over there on the chair right now, what would that be doing? What would that feel? Where do you feel scared in your body? And if scared was gone, what do you notice? So really allowing that play on that particular emotion that they’re getting. So I think that’s a useful exactly like you were doing, which sounds it links into that first and second order conversation. I’ve not heard of that before actually. I might look that up. But I think it links nicely in with that narrative approach, doesn’t it?

Dr Monica Moore (14:02):

You’re listening to transitions, a conversation between me, a GP, Monica Moore, and a mental health social worker,

Ms Julianne Whyte (14:08):

And that’s me, Julianne Whyte.

Dr Monica Moore (14:10):

It changes our emotional response. I think rather than being in it, it allows us that kind of perspective to sort of see it from the outside. And of course when we are seeing it as if it’s happening to someone else, it’s always easier to give advice to someone else than take our own advice. I dunno about you.

Ms Julianne Whyte (14:28):

Yeah, absolutely.

Dr Monica Moore (14:29):

That’s why in the previous episode I was talking about spoon theory and it was a conversation I had with my daughter when I was exhausted and she was pointing out that I’d just done too much. So talk about taking my own advice. And so that’s the thing, isn’t it? But what do you do, Julia?

Ms Julianne Whyte (14:46):

Actually Monica, can I pull you up just a minute?

Dr Monica Moore (14:48):

Yeah.

Ms Julianne Whyte (14:49):

Isn’t it beautiful? And just as a reflective, I just love it when our children come back with those isms of wonder and things that we’ve handed on to them, they then have integrated it and send it back to us. I just think, I just love it. They’re my moments of great. I get great joy from my children when I go, oh, you did listen to me that moment 25 years ago and you are using it now as part of, and we have a lovely relationship that you can say this to me now and I can go, oh, thank you. I’m glad. It’s lovely that we can take that. I remember when my kids were growing up, if I started doing that, oh, so tell me what’s happening for you right now. They’d go, don’t social worker us mom, I don’t want to hear that. And I go, oh, okay. I was actually just talking nicely. That’s what I found challenging as my children grew up, my transitions, dealing with my children as I was professionally growing professionally and trying to practice stuff on them.

Dr Monica Moore (15:43):

Yes, we’ve had those at my house. We’ve had those conversations too. But it’s interesting you say where the children come back with what you’ve told them. And I think I’d never mentioned spoon theory to it. She’s come up with it herself, you know what I mean? But that’s the lovely thing about it. But it was more about when I was thinking about this topic, about loss of employment through covid and loss of the future and all these young people who’ve had to move back home and how that creates conflict in families and relationships that have been getting on because of that distance and how difficult that is and how complex that is and how can we support. So as a GP, I’ll be listening to one family member complaining about another family member and how we hold that space, but at the same time hold confidentiality.

(16:39):

Sometimes it’s so easy as a GP to kind of blurt out something someone else said and that’s quite difficult. But we need to do that to maintain those boundaries. But also that thing like my frustration as a GP, when someone comes in and they just, no matter what I do, I can’t seem to be able to help them to transition. You know what I mean? They’re sort of stuck. And as someone working in that space, I kind of find it really difficult. And what can we do as clinicians for ourselves when someone is actually a bit stuck? What works for you? What helps for you?

Ms Julianne Whyte (17:23):

I actually say back to them, what I’m noticing right here now is that we are stuck. What do you think it looks like when we’re stuck? I actually stick with stuck.

Dr Monica Moore (17:32):

So you actually name it?

Ms Julianne Whyte (17:33):

Yeah, name it and say, look, I don’t think we are finding the right link here. What’s missing is the link. And I sit with people and do that. Oh, I’m curious right now what’s stopping us finding the next stage and the next transition. We need to move into the next thing that we need to find. What do you think? So I do this curiosity with them and go, I’m just at a bit of a loss now. I’m really, I’m pulling all the tricks out of my bag and I dunno what next to do. What do you think we could do right now? I’ve had people sit there and go, well, I don’t know. You’re the expert, you tell me. And I said, well look, what do I think? And I might just go, yeah, you love that one, but I’ve got some cards and I’ve got things and little props around me that I can quickly reach into my little basket.

(18:20):

I’ve actually got some juggling things and I’ve got some little metaphor images and I’ve got some nice little soft emotion things. And I might grab something and just change the subject and go, look. What I think might be useful now is let’s do some mindfulness. And the other day I did some juggling using scarves, which a colleague has talked me. I can do, I don’t think juggling is two scarves, but I can do juggling with two scarves. I think if I had did three, I’d be juggling anyway. What I love about it is you go throw, throw, catch, catch, and then you do your breathing. So I said, let’s just do some breathing and let’s just do this activity and then we’ll come back and see if we’re still stuck. And I’m finding that as a really nice segue to people to move from being stuck and then trying to find words. And I know that must be hard, at GP clinic, I could just see that if you’ve got,

Dr Monica Moore (19:05):

Your just imagining as a GP,

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:06):

I have some scarves

Dr Monica Moore (19:07):

I have some scarves here for you and I just want you to throw them from hand to hand.

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:13):

And I go, yeah, she’s weird.

Dr Monica Moore (19:16):

Monica’s on the edge. She’s just looped right over.

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:17):

Not going back to that one again.

Dr Monica Moore (19:21):

Look, yeah,

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:23):

They probably expect it from me.

Dr Monica Moore (19:25):

That is why we have referral pathways, isn’t it? And we have clinicians with expertise.

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:30):

Thank God for that.

Dr Monica Moore (19:31):

Thank God for that.

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:35):

So if you want to send someone to me and they can do some dodgy sort of juggling thing then, but look, I think it’s been amazing.

Dr Monica Moore (19:42):

Hokey. So hokey.

Ms Julianne Whyte (19:43):

And I went Lincraft the other day and had to buy a heap of fabric that was like $30 a metre so I could make my own scarves, coz I’ve given away about, everybody says, oh, can I have some of those to take home? And I’m like, yeah, okay, I’ll just buy some more. Yeah. And it’s been really remarkable.

Dr Monica Moore (19:59):

So you hand out little transition objects, do you like a teddy bear is a transition object. So you kind of go here, there’s your little transition object

Ms Julianne Whyte (20:07):

And I’ll give you the third one and if you can come back to me next session with ’em, juggle the third. So you do catch, catch, catch, throw, throw and look, the children love it, and some of the adults find it useful. So they haven’t actually come back and said, I’m now an expert at juggling. But the children are finding it, the younger ones around the 12, eight to 12 year olds are really enjoying it. And I do have to improve my technique a little. I’ve got to learn how to catch that third scarf. I’ll show you one day.

Dr Monica Moore (20:34):

Yeah, fascinating. Okay. No, because I think it’s all kind of relevant and the fact that what we are talking, what I was sort of musing about in terms of when people lose their jobs, because I have a neighbour or had a neighbour who when Ansett folded, he had three young kids and he just picked up and got a job as a baggage handler. I mean his previous position had been a highly paid engineering sort of job. And he kept food on the table by doing that. And it was such a resilient and practical thing to do rather than folding and collapsing. And I really admired that and I said, what is it? And I was thinking about all the sort of the forces. It’s not just genetic. Some of us are genetically less flexible perhaps or genetically more pessimistic or I don’t know, maybe a little bit more prone to believing things that aren’t based on reality. By that, I mean I’ve had patients who’ve said, no covid isn’t actually a virus. It’s actually the influence of 5G radiation. And so I don’t want the vaccine and as a GP it’s so difficult to stay calm and stay present and to work with someone. You know what I mean?

Ms Julianne Whyte (22:01):

Yeah, that is really tricky.

Dr Monica Moore (22:02):

Well, for me anyway, for Monica, the GP, I find it very difficult to stay calm. And so is that a genetic thing? Is it because of the way they were brought and beliefs they were picked up, but also there’s all that kind of environmental stuff, like the media sort of broadcasting all of these unsupported things. And I was amazed at with what was happening in the United States that the social platforms decided to actually block some of the misinformation that was being spread around. I thought, I wonder whether that will continue because certainly as a GP it’ll be great to have that misinformation blocked and I think it would help people, especially when they spread misinformation about jobs or anything like that, it would help people to have hope that it’s not always going to be like this, that people do recover, that economies do recover and that there might be some benefits like working from home and having more of a life and less of a commute might actually be a benefit.

Ms Julianne Whyte (23:07):

Absolutely. Yeah. And look, conversations we’ve had around our rural communities have been that yes, there’s been some incredible hardships, particularly in hospitality and some of the more service organisations, but the blessings that have actually also come out that just to talk to people about, yes, there’s been these incredible losses and sit with these losses, but slowly let them see the blessings. So many businesses have just so benefited from job keeper, some of the government initiatives that have helped businesses survive this period, which has also been something so that they can rebrand or redo something. But we’ve noticed, it’s interesting, our housing market where we live has just gone through the roof because the word is out that people can work from home. And so houses are just being, which is lovely. We’ve had people move into our communities from places afar, and it’s been, the word is that people are looking to put their houses out there because people will move to the rural areas.

(24:05):

We can work from home. And my son-in-law daughter and son-in-Law were just recently moved from Melbourne back to the rural area because he can now work from home and now they can come back close to family, which I just think, and so they’re looking at houses was to make sure there was a home office and good internet so that they could work from home. So there’s been change, and I think we can’t diminish the distress and the devastation for a lot of families that have just got no income or very limited income. But there are some other people that have been able to manage this change in unique and creative ways. How people do that. Like I said, we talked about before, is it nature or nurture? Is it previous experiences when there’s been change and they’ve had this schema develop around? Nothing good comes from it. I can’t possibly cope. So I don’t know if anyone’s sort of looked into what makes people more resilient. Is it a life stage if we are better when we are younger or different when we’re older? I don’t know.

Dr Monica Moore (25:09):

That’s it. I think it’s that thing about it made multifactorial. And I was also thinking about those cultural and society expectations that one of the lovely things about working from home is that traditionally women do the bulk of housework and caring for children and men go out to the office and work and having to work from home that in some families there’s been a readjustment that is a much more equal readjustment and whereas in other families, of course it’s just created huge problems. But is it possible as a result of this that there will be a move forward? Like Annabel Crabb wrote in her book, the Wife Drought, that there will be no longer a wife drought because partners will be sharing equally in these tasks. And so they’ll both have the power and they’ll both have the support because I think wouldn’t that be lovely? I mean, I see it playing out with my own son and his partner that they’re so lovely together. It’s a joy to see, but it’s not always like that. But I’m hopeful that as a change, that will help.

Ms Julianne Whyte (26:18):

Yeah, I agree with you Monica, and it’d be interesting to see in some, because I think some have also struggled with that having, especially with homeschooling when kids were in the home and both parents were working from home, created quite a bit of distress. So it’ll be interesting how this plays out. And I think how we will then, as clinicians and the helpers be very open to this perceived distress that people have got. But one thing I wanted to bring up, Monica, while we’re talking about this, is that as a business owner and as someone who’s caring not only for in the helping profession, but my own staff is making sure that they can work from home safely. And we’ve had to put a lot of policies and procedures. We actually said at work the other day that if we didn’t have Covid, it would’ve taken us five years to implement the right procedures and policies and talk about it and have management meetings and WHS stuff.

(27:13):

We had to do this fast and we all had to stop what we were doing and make sure our staff was safe and that they were well supported and that I spent a lot of time every day ringing into everybody that worked from home, make sure everybody had good it they could zoom their clients. Then we all had to check in with our clients to make sure they were comfortable with Zoom or phone calls. And so our admin staff were doing extra hours checking in with people and setting them up with Zoom would take at least 20 minutes per family to set them up originally. Then checking in with the people had confidentiality and privacy. And it was really as a manager, really tricky to ensure that not only did I do my own work, but I covered those bases and made sure people were safe. Did that impact on your work at all?

Dr Monica Moore (28:00):

Look, because I don’t employ anyone, the changes were more related to my own workspace and having to work from home. But in terms of, because I don’t work in a GP office at the moment, but I’m just thinking about my husband and all the other colleagues and friends that I’ve got who are GPs and how it was, yes, telehealth was an option, but as a GP you actually have to see people sometimes. And how initially my husband will come home and say, I think I’m going to have to retire because no one’s coming in. They were all terrified they were going to catch the plague, and so we had some moments where we thought, well maybe now, yeah, we pulled the plug, and we become a single income family because there was such terror about GP practices being a source of infection. And of course all that stuff about PPE and not being available and where do you source it and where do you source it both legally and reliably and can depend on it. And I’ve got colleagues in the rural areas and there were some problems with deliveries and it was

(29:17):

very, very stressful for everyone concerned. And the GPs were struggling to maintain both their own workloads in terms of, because they were still having to do things as a GP in the isolated areas, but they don’t have the hospitals. And then the fear from my colleagues who work in hospitals that they would, what was happening overseas that because of a lack of knowledge about the virus, that they would catch it and die as well. And so it was a time of terror and such big change and adapting, like me learning how to use Zoom and teaching others how to do it. I think I’ve came off very lightly really. I didn’t have to manage a practice, but my colleagues certainly described it as increased tensions and increased tensions between people working in the practice because you’d have different perspectives about whether to take it seriously or not. Initially that was really difficult. Even though you’re a doctor, you don’t always recognise the severity of the situation first off. And so there were conflicts within multiple doctor practices and that was really difficult for them as well.

Ms Julianne Whyte (30:28):

Look, and I had some days where I was seeing six or seven Zoom sessions, one back to back, like I do two full clinical days and my eyes were exhausted and I found the level of my concentration really quite hard. And a lot of my colleagues were saying the same things that we’re doing repeated Zoom calls. And there’s a sense of that urgency between Zoom calls. You’ve got to start on time, finish on time, make sure the content’s

(30:56):

real and practical, try and get resources up there. And I found that I was throwing my hands in the air a lot, so I was really active in the session. Whereas often if I’m sitting with someone, I’m quite relaxed. I can sit back. I’ve got my nice couches and a nice environment. I’ve found it quite exhausting and really found by the end of the day in the week that I didn’t have that mental space to even do notes and then follow up with letters. So that became a bit of a challenge. So I think as the transitions have affected people in gaining employment or losing employment or changing employment, I think just those maintaining employment, shifting how they do work is really quite difficult. I’ve got quite a few children that work in hospitality and they’ve struggled. Their whole business structure has changed. So that’s been interesting to watch it just from a personal level as well. We’ve had to financially support quite a few of our kids just through some of this time, which has been quite challenging. But yeah, that’s how we do transitions, isn’t it? The good and the bad.

Dr Monica Moore (32:07):

That’s how we do transitions.

Ms Julianne Whyte (32:09):

So hopefully we’ve had a chance to really explore some of those.

Dr Monica Moore (32:13):

Of course we have. Of course we have. But look, Julianne, I think we are never going to cover everything, and so we hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Transitions and next time Julianne is going to be holding the fort. So over to you, Julianne.

Ms Julianne Whyte (32:31):

Thanks Monica. And look, I’m so excited. A beautiful colleague of mine, Matthew Povey, who’s a talented trauma clinician and doing his social degree, has been working actually in the bushfire region around the alpine region here in Northeast and New South Wales. And he’s going to be talking with me around just what we’re seeing on the ground in the bushfire region, the fact that he’s on the ground doing this work and that cumulative impact of covid and bushfires and other how it impacts on the work that we are doing and what Matthew’s doing. So I’m so excited about bringing him in, and so is Matthew actually. He’s just a great conversationalist, so it’s going to be great. And your next episode too is going to be so cool. I can’t wait to hear that one, Monica.

Dr Monica Moore (33:13):

Yes, yes. So I’ll be talking to Dr. Martina Gleason, who’s a GP with a special interest in transgender issues. And so that will be episode four. Very much looking forward to doing that as well, having that conversation because we learn so much from each other. And so if you have any comments there, any topics you’d like us to discuss, we’d really love to hear from you. Any comments of something that we’ve got wrong or left out would be great as well, because it’s great to talk to someone from another discipline and to hear and gain different perspectives. And all you have to do is click on the link in the show notes and goodbye from me, Monica Moore,

Ms Julianne Whyte (33:52):

And goodbye from me, Julianne Whyte from Sunny Rural New South Wales. Bye for now.

Dr Monica Moore (33:58):

And look, remember to send us your comments, your thoughts, okay. Just click on that link.

Host (34:04):

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